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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be absolutely shocked at this statement?

53 replies

LaChaiseVerte · 19/05/2013 20:26

www.gov.uk/.../DoH_8412_Measl...

Sorry, am on my phone so link may not work, it's an mmr leaflet given out by email by our local primary. I am very much pro-vaccination but am gobsmacked that "some mothers" are being singled out as to blame for the outbreaks. Ot's a government leaflet ffs!!

OP posts:
MrsMargoLeadbetter · 19/05/2013 21:25

I don't think it is nitpicking, I personally feel it is challenging casual sexism. It is bad enough in life in general, but they are using taxpayers money to do this...

I have just tweeted @PHE_uk asking what they are doing.

Other ways to complain:

Email for CEO (Duncan Selbie) of Public Health England (says leaflet was produced for them) [email protected]

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-of-health/about/complaints-procedure#what-complaints-we-can-and-cant-deal-with

ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath · 19/05/2013 21:54

notbothered sexism is rife and one of the ways it is allowed to continue is by people making comments like yours. Sure, it hasn't hurt anyone but what does it say to the general public?

LaChaiseVerte · 20/05/2013 07:16

Margot let us know if you get any response.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/05/2013 07:23

Ugh that's awful.

AntoinetteCosway · 20/05/2013 07:33

I have complained. Bloody hell that makes me angry.

LindyHemming · 20/05/2013 07:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFallenNinja · 20/05/2013 07:48

YANBU. It should say parents.

Silly government.

CloudsAndTrees · 20/05/2013 07:49

That's awful! But I'm not surprised, I have never found NHS leaflets to be well written, especially the ones surrounding vaccination which have always been misleading IMO.

YoniMatopoeia · 20/05/2013 07:57

Does anyone have a clickable link?

AntoinetteCosway · 20/05/2013 08:03

Stealth linked near the top of the thread.

Ilovemyself · 20/05/2013 08:50

Glenthebattleostrich - your comments are so helpful on encouraging us men to be more interactive here. I don't know any man that is not all for equality so why not comment about the post rather than a load of tosh.

I would also like to point out we don't know who the author is - it could be a woman for all we know. I am constantly reading on here the woman take the lead in most areas of parenting so the author, male or female, may have worded it as it is because of that.

In response to the question are parents to blame, of course they are. If an area has a high population that does not inoculate and then we see an outbreak who do we blame?

Are these same people now encouraging their children to get the jab? Quite probably.

fascicle · 20/05/2013 09:05

FJL203
I'm not shocked. It's just the sort of crap I've come to expect on the subject. I'm bloody annoyed though.

I agree. The assumption that women are responsible is just one of the issues. NHS leaflets and info on this subject, even articles in broadsheet newspapers - full of emotive, non sequitur shit, totally lacking in statistics and balance. Huge gaps where there should be facts. As for the 'mistakenly associated with autism' - the lack of proven link with autism is being trotted out as proof the MMR is safe. How about getting all adverse reactions reported and then doing some proper unbiased research, unfunded by manufacturers' money.

fascicle · 20/05/2013 09:09

Ilovemyself
In response to the question are parents to blame, of course they are. If an area has a high population that does not inoculate and then we see an outbreak who do we blame?

Why do you need to blame anybody?

Ilovemyself · 20/05/2013 09:14

Sorry. Misread the original post. Thought it was questioning both the wording and who is to blame.

MousyMouse · 20/05/2013 09:17

yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
you can report all side effects to the yellow card scheme yourself btw. you don't have to rely to a shirty gp for that.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS · 20/05/2013 10:01

Yanbu. Agree that the statement is a fucking sexist disgrace. It is hard to believe that such crap gets published in 2013.

Ilovemyself · 20/05/2013 10:11

I guess a good question would be what is a reasonable risk? 1 in 10000? 1 in 100000? 1 in a 1000000?

And do the pros outweigh the cons? I bet the parent of the person who died wishes they had got them jabbed

MrsMargoLeadbetter · 24/05/2013 14:06

Complaint update

@PHE_UK tweeted me back:

"we understand your point & will review the content of the materials"

"Just to reassure you, this is not about blame - evidence suggests it?s usually mothers who make the decision to vaccinate"

I questioned where this evidence is. They said:

"have a look at this attitudinal survey pages 11 & 12 bit.ly/12xcVZv"

I think the main bits of this 3 year old survey they are referring to is:

"Among couples, mothers were typically better informed than fathers
about health matters concerning their children. Mothers generally
spent more time with children than fathers, they took more direct
responsibility for children?s health, and were often more knowledgeable
about immunisation. Many fathers, especially C2Ds, tended to leave
much of the parenting of their children to mothers."

"It also seemed that C2D single mothers tended to be better informed
about health issues than couples in the same social grade. This
stemmed from a sense that the responsibility was entirely theirs; they
felt they owed it to their child to ensure that they make informed
decisions."

However, this is quantitative survey, so not exactly a large consensus. And I still don't feel from the above 2 statements it was fair or appropriate to use the term mothers rather than parents.

I also think by using the term mothers they are enforcing the idea that it is the woman's responsibility when ideally it would involve both parents if they are active in the child's life.

The CEO of Public Health England read my email on Sun night, I am still awaiting a response. Should anyone else wish to contact him his email (which I found on the internet) is [email protected]

MrsMargoLeadbetter · 13/06/2013 15:43

Update

After chasing, the CEO of Public Health England has responded:

?I have read this and I agree with you. The text of this leaflet predates Public Health England and we have subsequently reviewed the wording and changed it. This wording is now reflected in the online material and will be incorporated in all future reprints of the flyer.?

And they have indeed updated the online flyer it no longer mentions Mothers choosing not to immunise....

Updated flyer - www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/204791/DoH_8412_Measles_A5_07_GP_accessible.pdf

I am sure mentioning the fact I'd posted on MN helped matters...I could just imagine the Comms dept worrying!

FudgefaceMcZ · 13/06/2013 15:49

Even if on average it is more likely that mothers make decisions on healthcare matters for children, there's nothing to stop them just writing 'some parents' which 1. includes mothers 2. includes fathers, some of whom are perhaps single so are making vaccination decisions and 3. stops them looking like silly people who think women are the only ones responsible for children. I don't see how their answer justifies it. Glad they have updated.

FobblyWoof · 13/06/2013 15:55

mrsmargo that's really good.

I read and repeat that fucking leaflet on the original link looking for where it said some mothers and couldn't see it. Know why now!

meddie · 13/06/2013 15:57

congratulations on getting it changed.

scaevola · 13/06/2013 15:59

Well done on getting them to see the need for the change and to agree to do it.

Marmotte3 · 13/06/2013 16:14

On a gov information/misinformation note, a quote from WDDTY.com :

A third of adolescents who have caught measles in the current South Wales outbreak had received the full course of MMR vaccinations when they were babies, a WDDTY survey has discovered.
The UK health authorities have maintained that the outbreak has been caused by low vaccination levels that resulted from the Andrew Wakefield study that suggested a link between the vaccine and autism.
But the WDDTY survey, which polled around 200 adolescents who have contracted measles in the latest outbreak, discovered that 60 of them had been fully vaccinated at the time. In other words, the vaccine didn?t protect them against the disease.
In all, around 1,150 children and adolescents in the South Wales region developed measles.

It?s not the first survey to reveal the ineffectiveness of the MMR vaccine. Studies among children in the US who developed measles have discovered that up to 98 per cent of them had been fully vaccinated.

chocoluvva · 13/06/2013 16:16

What a result! Well done.