to want my child to be free of religion at school?

[cherryade8]

I've startedlooking at schools and attending open days for my dd. Even the supposedly secular schools teach about religion and seen to have display boards with posters and pupils work explaining the intricacies of each religion.

I'm not religious and don't wish dd to be exposed to more than a cursory explanation of religion at school. What people choose to teach their children outside of school is none of my business, why does the curriculum seem to want to force it on children? It seems to be the case in both state and private schools.

Aibu?

it should be presented as fact, that is for sure, Nehru.

OVerprotection - given how influential religion has been and, in some areas, still is, in world history and culture, I think just a mere 'mention' would not suffice.

Since I believe ignorance leads to fear and intolerance, and that this can be combated by learning and knowledge, I would argue that it is important that children learn more than just a couple of basic facts about the major world religions - and it is such a big subject, it needs more than just a mention.

I think it is good to learn about religion, but in a dogma-free setting. Religious education done well is fab. Done poorly it is confusing and upsetting.

In non faith schools, assembly should be secular, having time for reflection rather than prayer, and songs with meaning instead of hymns. IMO .

Hello Suffolk, you helped me with a school RE issue a few months ago, and it made such a difference.

Yy, that's my point- I have no objection to RE lessons, I object to 'collective worship' and religious schools.

I think it's useful and necessary. I am a firm atheist. My DD2 is 13 and loves RS. She has just finished learning about Buddhism and the Eightfold Path and the Four Noble Truths and e story of how Siddharta Gautama became enlightened and became known as the Buddha. She has studied kosher and she has studied the Hajj, she has studied and discussed how Hinduism is monotheistic and how many ither beliefs come from it. She has learnt so much about the world. Most of her friends are Hindu, and she knows about certain rules surrounding that. When studying the break with Rome and Henry VIII, she can confidently discuss the differences between Catholic and Protestant churches, and when studying Turkey, she could easily understand the effects of Islam on the culture of the country. She knows about beliefs and empires, she questions more and is taught how to think philosophically and she is still a firm atheist....who knows more, understands more and thinks more. She wants to be an RS teacher r a history teacher, and there's a reason for that- religion is connected to humans in many ways (the reasons why are very interesting) and is part of nearly every culture. RS teaches critical thought and encourages unbiased discussion.

suffolknhat

My dd's RE teachers have been none christian, much younger and far more funkier with a lot of debating taking place in class, a couple were male and one was female.

I have no idea what RE teachers are like in general.

Why though is it felt so important to spend from primary school through junior school and then into secondary school to be learning about RE why not condense this to secondary?

That's a bit weird.

I think the OP just wanted to spark a debate. I don't think she's been back to take part in the conversation since she OPed.

Is that normal?

It's important to learn about other cultures and religions for children to appreciate and value the differences in others. It's very different to learn about another religion than to pray in all school assemblies as we did as kids. I would embrace it, as long as they don't force a particular focus on one religion x

Just re-read that ALL schools need to take children through collective worship? Is that really true? I'm really surprised by that, unless it is a Christian-led school

Yanbu. I want a secular education for my dc because I had one

so over 3 years at secondary you say you can't teach about 8 different aspects of ways of life?

and how do you know those people with prejudices and misinformation will be different if they don't learn about religions in infants and junior school - how do you know it would change how they think or view the world of religions?

YABU.

Atheist family here. No objection whatsoever to my children learning about religions. It's not going to brainwash or indoctrinate them. We have a set of readers for DS1, a couple of which included stories with a religious and mythological element. Even at 5, despite them being quite good stories, he struggled with the whole magical, mystical idea of them and refused to give them a second read, even though he often picked others up for his bedtime reading.

Now, at 9, he categorically believes that all religion is a load of codswallop.

I do object to "collective worship" mind - particularly in non-denominational school, where it often ends up being a ridiculous mishmash which supports no one in their beliefs.

Ivy - can you seriously not see how teaching children about religions and what others believe from a young age is possibly the best way to reduce religious discrimination and to encourage tolerance?

I think it's a bit like relationship and sex education. If you think it's important you actually have to start early from nursery or reception .... in gentle ways like learning about our 5 senses, and naming the obvious parts of the body,& practicising being assertive with our friends. In RE we might be making clay lamps for divali, or having our hand painted with a rangoli pattern (for Eid ?) It would be weird not to hear anything about religion and associated cultures until Y7 wouldn't it ivykaty ?

OP, I was a bit like you. I didn't want my DCs taught religion in school, but I had no choice, private schooling wasn't an option - my DCs had to go to the local CofE primary school. I was pleasantly surprised. (They were not preached at like I was growing up in a Southern Baptist part of the US, and my only point of reference with regard to church run schools.) The songs they sang at assemblies were not overly religious - I believe they were specially written song that weren't overtly religious. Assemblies were basically about how to be a good person (yes, mainly Christian views, but don't all religions want us to be nice to each other?) Yes, the children bowed their heads for a little prayer, but you can opt out of that part - the Muslim children in the school did.

Collective worship is a requirement in state secondary schools. It is based on mainly Christian values - again on vague topics like bullying, being nice to each other, not stressing during exams, etc. At the end of the assembly they are asked to sit quietly and reflect on what they have just heard and how they might be able to apply that message to their own lives.

Two of my DCs went to two different private secondary schools. One was made to take RE at GCSE, one not. One had assemblies as described above. One was made to go to chapel once a week - he didn't have to take GCSE RE.

My DCs are older now and all staunchly atheist - school did not turn them into religious nutters. I believe they have well rounded views of the religions of the world. At 20, 18, 15 and 13 they can hold competent and informed conversations about all the worlds major religions, much more so than the teenagers here in the US, who no nothing about any other religion other than Christianity or what they see on the news or tv about other religions, which we all know is not the best source of education.

Just to clarify, we were living in England when my older 3 DCs were/are in school.

Maybe it would be worth your while to attend some of the primary schools assemblies to see how they do their collective worship.

It would be weird not to talk about it if you were making a lamp etc - but do you need then to have a whole lesson dedicated to it?

I can't see that teaching about religion is the best way to stop religious discrimination, I don't see it stopping and RE is a lesson at school for 11 years. Possibly you have evidence that it works?

But if you don't have the lesson dedicated to it it is a meaningless activity.

I think looking at most rational adults and the fact they can see that an understanding of religions is a good thing shows that. Teaching about ALL religions in schools is a fairly new thing, so is the massively multicultural nature of this country - 3 or 4 generations back it was pretty much unheard of to have someone who wasn't christian living nearby in most areas of the country whereby now societies are much more 'mixed', schools are the ideal place to break down barriers between those religions and create an ethos of religious tolerance and for that to happen children have to understand the different religions even if its just "some children don't believe in christmas" and what they celebrate and how.

"Why though is it felt so important to spend from primary school through junior school and then into secondary school to be learning about RE why not condense this to secondary?"

Primary school pupils don't really need to know much about anything. By that argument you could condense everything into secondary.

It is also harder to learn other things that come up in primary (WWII for example or the reformation or even Roman Britain and Ancient Greece) If you are absolutely clueless about religion.

sirzy I am sorry but I don't agree that mentioning a fact about a pot you are making in art and giving a history or religious background of the pot would be meaningless.

Why though does it have to be done at a young age? Why do we need to teach young children about a lot of different religions in a dedicated lesson

Perhaps you could explain why it would be hard to learn about these other topics without learning about religion at junior school?

Yes Happy and I think the primary years need to be about developing a love of learning, and not too narrowly focused just on reading, writing, and maths. You can't develop a love of learning without exploring topics and learning about something - and I think RE should be a part of that.