Any police or criminal lawyers out there? Wwyd?

[ZenNudist]

Not name changed, maybe I should. Thinking about something horrible. Need advice of the MN kind.

Someone has screwed my family over in business. Been the worst kind of grasping self interested evil person. Taken everything they can then turned round and stabbed us all in the back.

The thing is I've found out this person has broken the law. They are a speed freak and given to driving too fast. Not just 35 in a 30 zone. Like over 100mph all the time. At least 3 times they have persuaded family members or paid friend's to take points for them. They'd have a licence ban by now if not.

I wondered if I could report this and if so to whom? I know that speed cameras take photos so they can prove who was speeding. I don't know if the record would still be kept. if we could tell the police would this person would get a licence ban & a criminal record?

Leaving aside the morality of this, which I'd still think hard about, is it even practical?

Her bragging will eventually bite her on the arse.

This is one to think about for now, it's looking like it would depend on the rest of my family to decide to act as I don't think me on my own can do much. In the interest of furthering the fantasy I might call 101 and ask.

Her screwing over of my family has only just started. I don't want to give her more reason to pursue her work against us with new vigour. ATM it could peter out. I hope! If we tried to shop her it could really backfire.

Not in the UK right now but think I could do to dial 101 when i get back. If you knew someone was criminally dangerous behind the wheel do you have a moral obligation to report them anyway? TBH we have other more tangible problems to deal with anyway so might have to leave this as a dish served cold anyway...

I didn't really want to report her, have her know we've reported her then it fail anyway

That really isn't the worse outcome you could be looking at.

You really don't want to be looking at the picture of her going into court to face the widow and mother of a child with life changing injuries and to know you failed.

Failed to wave the red flag that there was a driver so incapble of understanding the dramtic and horrifc consequences of leaving her brain at home when she got in a car that she devastated the lifes of people who were merely going from A to B with no idea that today was the day when life, or life as they know it, was about to end forever.

I understand your hurt, anger and continuing pain at how she has behaved towards you. BTDTBTTS. you have my heartfelt sympahy and I know it isn't something you "just" get over especially when the ramifications are an ever present diffiucult part of your now.

But if how you feel about what she did to you is standing between you and your ability to work out what the priority is in this context then it is time to accept that you need to start working on recalibrating the degree to which you allow it to dominate your thought processes.

She hurt you badly. She let you down badly. She impacted your life badly.

Don't let her do so much worse to somebody else.

Not when you have the opportunity to at least try to minimise her ability to inflict herself on the rest of the population be it the pedestrian or car driving/passenger variety.

You want be sitting there thinking "ohhhh, here is my chilled revenge on a plate". if she hurts or kills somebody and has to face the consequences. You'll be tormenting yourself as to why you didn't even try to do something to stop her ever having the chance.

I personally don't think you need any more shit to deal with cos you have been through ennough. Which is why I think for your own sake you need to go to thenpolice and give them all the help you can, company car logs, details, heresay the lot. They will do as much as they are able and willing to do. The results may not be immediate, but in the medium term they may be the vital element that gets her off the road before something truely awful happens.

This is getting worse. I've just found out that the car driven when her mother took the points was the company car, so even if there wasn't a photo of the driver IF there was a photo of the car then it would be pretty damning evidence. The mother wasn't insured to drive the car and it would likely be in a place that this woman was meant to be for work - verifiable by company diary.

Carpe I know you're right. Thing is its hobsons choice. Report & we risk her family getting jail time at worst, it's a seriously horrible thing to do to them. Not report and leave her free to potentially kill herself or others at worst. I know that's a lot of if buts and maybes. But those are the extreme consequences. Maybe this should be an "am I being hysterical".

Report & we risk her family getting jail time at worst, it's a seriously horrible thing to do to them. Not report and leave her free to potentially kill herself or others at worst. I know that's a lot of if buts and maybes. But those are the extreme consequences. Maybe this should be an "am I being hysterical"

You are being human, not hysterical. Simple choices get complex when you add in the human element.

But in order to stop people stupidly hurting other people the complex does need to be peeled away leaving the simple core as the deciding factor.

You don't want your roads to have the carnage there is in Italy. And one of the biggest contributatory factors is the reticence to report and provide evidence where wheel based fucks on legs are concerned.

If her family members end up with retribution that is on her and them. You do not have control over their central nervous system. You did not make them do this. All you are doing is contributing to making sure that their stupid self imposed choices aren't paid for by some poor person who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you have evidence and know what they are doing and it all goes bent it will be a lot harder to live with than the emotional fall out of them getting into trouble.

You have pick the most appropriate persons to pay the piper for their actions. Them or some random person/people who have never clapped eyes on them.

It's not fair you are in this postion. That is another reason for you to be angry with them. It's another reason for you to choose them to pay the price and not anybody else.

They don't appear to make other people much of a priority, do they ?

Not you, not other road users, not pedestrians, just them and their self obsessed need to put one self obsessed person's highly unreasonable wants over everybody elses' need to not be hit by a speeding car.

If you are responsible for company car logs (and you shouldn't have access if you are not the responsible person for the company), do it as a business decision. Or let the company do it.

Report anonymously?

The decision lies with my dm. She runs the company and has access to that evidence.

She is flying back to the UK to fire this person for gross misconduct. She says she's going to warn her not to continue to act against us or suffer the consequences. She's not going to specify what those consequences will be.

Thing is this woman is stupid and greedy. She lies and lies and thinks people don't find out. Chances are that dm will have to report this anyway (and then it'll all go to hell).

This woman has been on a speeding course twice ( one more than you're meant to get) her mother has been on a course for her AND taken 2 sets of points for her. Her gran took points for her, as did a friend.

It's completely fucked up. Why would you continue to speed at 100mph + when you've had so many second chances. If you were her mother/gran etc why would you let her continue to get away with it to do it again? It beggars belief.

Thing is if company vehicles have been involved then that can affect the company insurance. Especially if she was using a company vehicle and persuaded someone who is not from the company to take the points as they would have been uninsured.

Making police aware is all well and good but things don't get to court without evidence and you hold the evidence at the moment

I'm glad there's a gross misconduct case in the works. And I definitely think the speeding, and also the lying about it, in a company car, should be brought into the dismissal as well - surely such recklessness and the lying also constitute gross misconduct?

Definitely report her.

Ultimately what you need is less revenge than distance.

If you feel you ought to report her for good reasons (stopping dangerous driving and as a public duty) then do. But staying in a drama with this woman will only make the anger grow until it eats you and your family up. The best outcome is having nothing to do with her, never thinking about her and not caring about her.

If you do report her, could you do it through crimestoppers instead? That way your details wouldn't be left. They can then decide whether to look into it.

I can't be the only one wanting to know what happened in the business?

Make the information about speeding and the company car tracker evidence part of the disciplinary so that at least if the company are ever asked for a reference (ha ha) you can state this clearly. Also if any further offenses come to light the company can show due diligence in reporting these. Also ask at the hearing if she is aware of any other information about company vehicles that she has to disclose now before leaving.

Hand any evidence you have over to the police, this is a criminal act repeated on multiple occasions. Hearsay is not going to cut it and then let the law take its course. Withholding this is not an option and can have ramifications on your company. Not least of which is that the insurance will look very hard at the practices in the business and control over such illegal activities.

It is not your personal problem to consider the outcome on other humans for their actions but if you make it clear this information contributed to a disciplinary event, the outcome and that malice may occur in the future I think the police will act accordingly. It IS your duty to protect your company, and other road users.

Best coming from the top of the business though, not someone else.

Quite right: it shouldn't be personal. Anyone should report this sort of thing, and the fact that it comes in the middle of a tit-for-tat exchange is just muddling a decision which would be very clear otherwise.

Out & about on holiday just checking in relieved to see more responses it helps thank you. Some good points to take on board.

Making the speeding part of the disciplinary very good idea. We have enough to sack her, but this would at least show we are taking the vehicle aspect seriously.

Rhiana she is setting herself up in business, stealing all of our formulations and contacts. She has got finabcial backing (by lying). Her employment contracts has a confidentiality clause so we will have to get into a legal battle. We do t really expect to win. She only has this job because she was my db's gf at the time. She only has this info to compete with us because we treated her as family, trusted her and loved her. We were sad when he had to split from her for lying and shagging around.

So you can see how it's difficult not to take it personally.

Would her ability to run her new business be affected if she lost her licence?

Chaz it would make it difficult for her to get out & about visiting contacts. Not impossible as she could get a train, taxi or chauffeur (the way she acts about money that might be possible).

Thing is I expect it would take ages to get a licence ban, if at all. She has rich boyfriend, she has contacts, she could get off scot free. Plus be even more determined to ruin us.

It's not big business, she just hasn't got any honour or imagination such that she'd find her own niche so instead she's taking her rich friends' money and muscling in on our turf & trying to steal our staff. Bitch.

The speeding part of the crime is largely irrelevant now, lying about who was driving is Perverting the Course of Justice. Very very serious.

If you have proof of this you should report it, if you have proof that a member of your staff was uninsured then you should report it, if the person sticks to the story that they were driving when it was someone else then there is a case that the car was Taken Without Consent. Why would an uninsured driver have permission to drive a company vehicle?

Can I suggest the Op goes to a place called the Fightback Forums aka Pepipoo. They are seriously clued up on motoring stuff and would be better placed to comment than well meaning amateurs here on Mumsnet (myself included).

it's difficult not to take it personally.

All the more reason to involve more impersonal forces, such as those of "Law and Order", meaning it is out of your hands. Police/official involvement could also be important, as previous posters have noted, in insurance, company liability and, no doubt, company reputation. Not to mention having a paper trail for any claim you may have to raise for harassment.

Sorry, it sounds very stressful.

Rootin an uninsured person wasn't driving the car. This woman, the employee was driving, she was insured. Her mother lied to protect her from getting points & losing her licence by saying it was her driving. When actually it wasn't her car, she wasn't insured on it, she has her own car, It's further (circumstantial?) proof, should there be a photo of this car... It's whether any of the evidence really exists. If there were no photos then there's nothing that can prove it.

But she can't have it both ways - either she was driving (and speeding), or her mum was driving (and uninsured). At the disciplinary, I'd ask her to make up her mind which it is.