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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel despair at the blatant and constant dishonesty of ds1?

79 replies

WinkyWinkola · 15/05/2013 19:36

He's 8.

He will lie about everything from whether he's cleaned his teeth to his homework to his hitting his siblings.

It's unbelievable. I see him hitting them and he denies it outright and will never admit it.

He will never come clean even if he's caught red handed. Deny deny deny.

What to do? I find it repellant when he does his wide eyed innocent denials and then the blubbering starts when he gets punished for his misdemeanour and for lying. Still denying it all.

I actually find it creepy.

OP posts:
Flakita · 15/05/2013 21:44

I'm with carabos here. Sounds like attention seeking. How old are his siblings op? Did this lying start when the siblings were babies?
I have come to realise that I expected (due to lack of sleep in no small measure) probably too much behaviour-wise from my then 2.5 ds1 when his brother was born. Now that ds2 is 4 I wonder how I ever expected impeccable behaviour from his brother when he was the same age.

Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 15/05/2013 21:46

Really appreciate all your input. Am digesting and planning an approach. Thank you so much.

OP posts:
Flakita · 15/05/2013 21:58

I remember reading somewhere that if you've actually witnessed the bad behaviour it's best to avoid an interrogation. Simply move on to the solution 'I see you've hurt your brother, can you apologise to him please'. Otherwise they get into trouble twice and it's all a bit too much when they're little and is more likely to cause them to lie.

LemonsLimes · 15/05/2013 22:07

I'm sure Turps is professional when dealing with her patients and doesn't say to them. "OMG is there anything you don't think needs a visit to the GP? WTF do you want me to do about it? Lying is a totally normal part of social development. It's your immature attitude that is the problem here, not your DS." Grin

CocacolaMum · 15/05/2013 22:24

my ds is 12 and tbh we still have a lot of lies.. I accept that its just part of learning how to be but its so frustrating when it is constant!! and also that hes a crap liar so I know instantly!!

Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 15/05/2013 22:33

Lemons, I think if you declare yourself to be a G.P., even on an anonymous Internet forum, perhaps professionalism should prevail.

I'm not really convinced by Turps' rationale but appreciate the input regardless.

OP posts:
MedusaIsHavingaBadHairday · 15/05/2013 22:55

One of my children (Ds1..no two of four) was like this.
His default reaction to any query, any misbehaviour, ANYTHING, was to lie. Sometimes convincingly, sometimes not.. like your son, he would lie, wide eyed even when caught in the act and then absolutely melt down and rage at the unfairness of being sanctioned!

My other three were NOT like this..same parents, same parenting, and a generally cheerful happy household. DS1 just LIED.

I'm afraid it carried on into his teens, and his disregard for telling the truth extended into disregard for personal property (he would 'borrow' anything not nailed down and for a few years stole money in the house) and disregard for rules generally... I used to describe him as amoral..and he was.

The good news is that he has ..slowly..matured. I no longer lock things away, although if the last iphone cable/packet of crisps/ banana has gone and I say 'oy have you got my...' he is still likely to try the innocent face.. but he is 99% better than he was as a small child.

But he's 20 now! And I still do not trust him 100%. I love him, I adore him, he is a great young man with a job, a girlfriend etc etc but there is still that small element of not being able to totally believe him because he does not see telling the truth as a basic essential the way the rest of the household do.
he is also far more emotionally volatile than his siblings..when the 'red mist' descends he just blows... but again he is FAR calmer now at 20 than he was at 15 or even at 10...

I think those who haven't experienced a serial liar underestimate how DIFFERENT and disturbing it can be!

AnyoneforTurps · 15/05/2013 23:17

Lemons, I think if you declare yourself to be a G.P., even on an anonymous Internet forum, perhaps professionalism should prevail.

I'm intrigued (given the context of this thread) by what you feel is unprofessional in my comments. All I have done is tell the truth about my opinion. Isn't that what you want? Or do you want me to lie?

I think it's great that you have taken posters' comments on board, even those that you disagree with. OP. But the truth is that I want to give your DS a big hug because I'm picturing a confused little boy who panics and says daft things, not a "creepy" and "repellent" pathological liar. I found your OP quite disturbing. I think you have both got yourselves into a pickle over this issue but you carry the responsibility as the adult. The important thing, though, is that you are prepared to change the dynamic and move on.

Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 15/05/2013 23:31

You are unable to do basic reading comprehension Turps.

I said I found the behaviour creepy and repellant, not my ds. Quite different.

OP posts:
Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 15/05/2013 23:32

Are you REALLY a G.P.?

Really?

OP posts:
OhLori · 15/05/2013 23:46

Winky, its hard to tell from your posts what the problem is. Some of it does sound a bit harsh in approach, if you don't mind me saying. Like you want to catch him and punish him, a bit like Barbarian mum's experience, but I may be wrong and that is just the way it has come across.

Also, some of the lies sound quite trivial, if you don't mind me saying e.g. I take it as par for the course that my son will tell me he has brushed his teeth even when he hasn't. I mean who wouldn't lie about that tedious and unpleasant exercise?! Would you say you are generally an empathic person? Have you got very high expectations of your children? Are there lots of orders or demands? I'm not saying that you shouldn't have these standards by the way, but could any of it be down to your engagement with your son? I think children are born with their own personalities and they don't always have an easy "fit" with their parents.

Equally, there could be something problematic going on with your son, in which case you may need a professional opinion. Why not give it a bit of time?

OhLori · 15/05/2013 23:49

p.s. I'm not excusing the lying either, btw, esp about hitting his siblings. Do you get a sense of his motivation e.g. is it fear, confusion or defiance?

Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 16/05/2013 00:01

I don't know. I don't get it. I've asked him to come to me and tell me if his siblings are getting on his nerves and I will help sort it out.

We have had that conversation many times but he just physically lashes out at them instead and then they are hurt and I then need to deal with what they were doing and that he has hurt them.

He refuses to sleep in his bedroom so I've set up a little camp bed next to my bed so that he can get in that whenever he wants. Or in my bed if he wants if he is scared or anything. I hope to help him feel secure and loved like all my dcs.

He's not short of love and affection. We do parent-child days with each of our dcs every six-eight weeks.

I gave the teeth cleaning example as a triviality he will fib about.

I don't know what else to do. Latika's advice sounds good.

Perhaps I am an immature parent but I am trying or have tried approaches I've read about or have been recommended.

OP posts:
hesterton · 16/05/2013 05:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TallGiraffe · 16/05/2013 06:41

How old are your other children? Have you asked them how it makes them feel? I ask this because my brother was a compulsive liar and it caused a lot of problems for me and my other siblings. He would steal things / beat us up and be so convincing in his denial it was incredibly frustrating!

Tbh he's never grown out of it, we've had some big issues over the years (compulsive lying and crime is a really bad combination!) but things are better now. We've accepted that his brain is just wired differently. The only thing that has ever made a difference was cranial osteopathy. I know it sounds crazy but it worked! It was like it reprogrammed him for a while. I'm not saying your son is the same at all, but wanted to give you my experiences. Good luck!

PicardyThird · 16/05/2013 06:53

Yy to Flakita, hesterton and to Turps' posts too.

I have a wonderful wise friend, OP, who pointed out in a similar context that children - yes, of this age too (and I have an 8yo - they are still children, not half-grown mini-adults) - often desperately want something to be true. They don't function on the same principles as adults. There is the abstract knowledge that Lying Is Wrong and there is their literally child-ish desire for the world to be the way they want it. It is, honestly is a normal developmental step.

When my kids lie about small stuff, I call them on it calmly and move straight on. I don't interrogate (that makes them feel backed into a corner and may even cause an attitude of 'if I'm such a terrible liar I may as well not even try to be honest') or make a huge issue. The less fuss I make about the tiny fibs, the more likely it is they will tell me the truth when it really, really counts. And they generally do.

ll31 · 16/05/2013 09:13

I think you need to stop concentrating do much on it as from words you use it seems to be v damaging to your relationship. Using words like -- repellent,, creepy,no moral compass...

Call him on it, but stop expecting him to stop immediately and stop interrogating..

Don't discuss, deal and move on.

Try and concentrate on good behaviour.

Language you use makes it sound as if you find his behaviour bordering on criminal. Do you think he doesn't sense this-dial your reaction down hugely.

You sound like you've v high expectations of your dc, maybe lying ie what he says, is all he can control.

I feel quite sorry for him,having read your posts actually.

ll31 · 16/05/2013 09:22

You also may already have got to a position where he's the family scapegoat, not a healthy place to be. Yes, he lies a lot, but doesn't mean he always lies.. From your posts, you'll believe siblings before him. Coming from big family,believe me, children learn how to use this v quickly.

The more I think of languageyou used,the more disturbing I find it,when it refers to an 8 yr old,a child.

GemmaTeller · 16/05/2013 09:40

DSD was (and sometimes still is at 22) a liar. She lied mostly because she just couldn't be bothered getting into a conversation or discussing something.

Even when we called her on it - 'OK, I'll just check with xxxx' - and was found to be lying she just covered it with another. She was quite blatant about it and sometimes got herself into a pickle.

She wasn't just lying to us either, she was lying to her mum to the same degree until in the end mum was ring us and we were ring mum to check (mum says its ok I do xxx, mum says I cant have xxx, I need £xxx for xxx, dad says, mum says, gemma says, gemma did, mum did, dad did).

GemmaTeller · 16/05/2013 09:41

...and no, I'm not having a go because she is my DSD and I'm a wicked stepmum, we have quite a good relationship.

Awks · 16/05/2013 09:56

Why is he so angry? Got to say, he sounds an unhappy little boy - is he?

Original poster
WinkyWinkola · 16/05/2013 10:06

Thanks Picardy for some solid advice.

OP posts:
OhLori · 16/05/2013 11:12

Good luck OP.

SigmundFraude · 16/05/2013 13:32

I feel sorry for you both actually, OP, and I recognise the situation you're in.

It is incredibly frustrating to have a child blatantly lie, I totally understand that. I have been in that situation as an adult, but not with my own child.

He's 8, and 8 is plenty old enough to understand that black lies are wrong. With mine, I differentiate between 'white' lies and 'black' lies, obviously with white lies being tolerable and sometimes necessary.

But 8 is also still very young, and I think the way you are talking about him is pretty harsh, 'I find it creepy'..what does that mean? Talking about not trusting him as an adult? Do you really think he won't change?

It sounds like you are finding him difficult to deal with so are disengaging from him a little emotionally. Take my advice and knock that on the head before it's irreparable. I've seen it happen.

Loads of kids lie, as others have said on here, I remember blatantly lying as a child. Don't let this normal child behavior drive a wedge between you.

accordiongirl · 16/05/2013 22:52

If you saw him hit the dog - or whatever - why are you asking him about it and getting into a situation that invites him to lie? This is what is meant when they say "family dynamic".