To ask what is normal regarding nudity and babies/smallchildren in the UK?

[honeytea]

I am English but I live in my dp's home country (Sweden.)

We have a baby (4.5 months) it has been really lovely and hot the last couple of weeks so I have been taking ds down to the beach or to the park and letting him lie naked in the shade (on a few old towels to catch wee) this seems fairly normal here, I didn't even really think about it. The kids swim in the lakes and some are naked whilst swimming up to 5/6+ here.

I mentioned to a friend who lives in the USA how it was lovely for babyhoney to get fresh air on his bum and she said you would never do that in the USA, she said at baby groups the mums covered their babies genitals with a cloth so the other mums (and babies?)didn't see. At the baby massage group we go to all the babies are naked and I have never seen anyone trying to hide their babies genatals.

We are coming to the UK for a month in July and hopefully it will be warm. What is normal levals of baby nudity? I am from Devon so we will be having days on the beach as well as visiting parks.

thanks!

Edge - I suspect the people in the background are jealous wishing they could be running around naked too -or thinking how lovely -it is your perception that makes you think they are staring disapprovingly!
(Saw a 4 yo running round a local shop - I (as a parent) thought the mother should have stopped the child - slightly older woman (who I thought was looking disapprovingly at child too) said to me -'don't you wish you had that kind of energy' )
How can it harm a child who doesn't know any better...it worries you now -as an adult- that a paedophile may have seen you naked as a child?
A paedophile may have got the same kicks out of seeing you in your pants...or swimming costume ...or if your towel slipped down whilst getting changed -or in your clothes....it only hurts you if you think about it like that...

Just popping back in, it's been a busy weekend, sorry it has taken me so long to come back!

Thanks for all the advice! It is great to know I won't be the only one with a baby with no clothes on.

The attitude to nudity in Sweden is very relaxed, I am a little shocked by it sometimes (I don't think it is bad I am just supprised) my BIL was showing me the summer holiday photos the other week, my nephews (who are close to me in age, they are mid 20s I am late 20s) were all fully naked standing around in the sun, there were 30+ photos, my dp takes saunas with his sisters naked and dp wondereds at home naked, even when we go on family holidays with my family dp wonders around naked (my family didn't seem to have an issue with this but my dm did tell him he had a nice bum which I guess served him right.) It is great because I have never felt shy about breast feeding in public.

The babies do wee at baby massage but they lie on a towel and have a couple of flannels under their bum, ther have been no poo accidents (yet) I am sure it happens. I have put a nappy on ds when he was about to poo, he has a far away look when he is trying to poo so I get a few seconds notice.

The sun issue does worry me, now it is easy enough to keep ds in the shade but as he gets more mobile it might be harder. I am going to speak to my hv about the sun but my feeling is that it is good for a child (not baby) to get small amounts of sun on their skin. If I fully cover ds up his entire childhood to the point where his skin never sees the sun at all what will happen the first time he goes on holiday with his friends, I don't think he would wear his uv protective outfit, if his milky white skin saw the sun for the first time when he was with a bunch of lads in a hot country I think he would be very likely to get burnt, I hope to teach ds to treat the sun with respect by wearing a sun hat, sun cream and staying in the shade/covered up at the middle of the day. The days are very very long in Sweden in the summer, we tend to go to the lake late afternoon/early evening as it is less hot.

I would rather people didn't photograph/film my ds whilst he is naked, I don't think those wishing to film children need vans to hide in when the quality of phone cameras is so good, I don't feel like it would negatively effect ds is someone did film him, he would not know.

The beaches/parkes in Sweden are also used by dogs and there are also lots of wild animals like dear/wild pigs, all dog poo is picked up but they still wee. I don't think a toddler wee is more offensive than a dog wee, I would pick up the poo.

I do hope it is warm enough for lots of lovely outdoor play days this summer :)

I was very modest from an early age, Gubbins. I don't know why but I remember being very young and having dreams that I was naked in front of a lot of people! I requested wearing a swimming costume in the bath with my brother when I was really young - four or five, maybe? I just didn't like it.

I still don't. I wish I could explain why as it's nothing to do with being ashamed of my own body or other people's, but when I do see small children running around naked I feel horribly embarrassed, for me and for them.

The problem I have with a lot of these posts though is that running around naked seems synonymous with innocence and being carefree. I don't believe it is, when you consider the opposite of 'innocent' is 'guilty' - after all most children will become conscious of their body and being naked before they hit puberty and that doesn't make them guilty of something wrong or bad if they prefer to be fully clothed.

I am more bothered by adults who say they don't want to see "wrinkly bits" or dangly bits" it is so sad that someone can look at a child's body and see ugliness where there is only innocence and nature.

Unlucky - no, it doesn't exactly worry or bother me but perhaps because my parents had a penchant for taking pictures whenever I was naked (or wearing horrible clothes, for that matter ) it is something that has stayed with me. I don't like it, I didn't like it at the time. I have got a memory of my dad once barging into the bathroom and taking a picture of me in the bath and it really upset me. He meant no harm by it - he was just being a typical daft, teasing Dad - but I felt invaded in some way and whenever I have seen that picture since it's brought back that memory. I half stood up in shock, he snapped a picture and roared with laughter.

I seriously doubt anyone wishes they could run around naked - or do they? I don't know.

I accept that this is my issue but all I know is I will never, ever allow my child to go naked in a public place. I've no problem with getting changed and a quick flash but seeing naked children running around makes me uncomfortable in a way I struggle to fully verbalise. I don't see it as sweet and innocent, rather, I see it as taking advantage of that sweetness and innocence by not guiding them to the accepted norms of society.

Aimed at me thegreylady? I don't particularly find adult 'wrinkly bits' and 'dangly bits' attractive either if that's any help. I see innocence in a child, sure, and nature, but beauty in their bits? Not so much!

I have no issues whatsoever with little ones being naked up to whatever age they like! However, the only photos we have of our dcs on the beach on England, the are in buttoned up coats, with blue fingers and toes

My DD is three and is a streaker, at play dates, soft play, wherever really. I think it's funny especially when she can find a partner in crime, they seem so free. One of our friends, a couple, think that it's weird, their DD (who is 2) can only bath with her father if he's wearing trunks, now that is weird!

Guilty is only the opposite of innocent when you're using it as a legal term; I would say that in the way it is being used here, its opposite is knowing.

If my children were remotely uncomfortable with being naked, then of course I would let them cover up. The fact is that I have usually put them in a swimming costume, but they have decided to strip off. You can't project your feelings on to them; if they shared the slightest bit of the embarrassment you felt as a child I think I'd be aware of it.

This summer (DTs are nearly 4) I have felt the need to leave their pants on or put them in swimmers when they are paddling at the beach. Up till now I haven't been bothered. No idea why.

I'm not sure Gubbins, I didn't tell my parents how I hated it as they'd have laughed at me and told me not to be so silly. I'm sure you wouldn't, but when an adult acts like something is normal and fine it's difficult as a child to challenge that.

At any rate, I can't project my feelings onto them but I can and will make decisions for them I believe to be in their best interests and one of these is to have bottoms covered in public.

Edge - there is a difference there ...my DD2 (especially) was desperate to throw her clothes off at every opportunity (hence nudey rudey nickname)...now I let her hide getting changed for ballet now (even though I find that disturbing) -I didn't force her to do either... you are obviously modest as a person and your parents shouldn't have forced you to do something you weren't comfortable with...
(As to running naked - I would never do it -too wobbly and jiggly and conscious of being judged... and too grown up ...but sometimes it would be nice to be carefree and irresponsible and really not care what people think....)

No, I think that's fair enough unlucky.

I'm sorry to ask this, as it sounds really arsey, but do you think "nudey rudey" in itself has very negative connotations?

How does buddy-rudely have negative connotations, it just rhymes, it's a fun term nothing else in it. If kids want to be nude then they should be allowed to be, you didn't want to be as a child and were made to be which is wrong and IMO has skewed your view.

Nudey-rudey I meant.

Rudey - it's "rude" innit? I was just wondering.

I wasn't exactly 'made' to be, it's just my parents clearly thought as some do here, amazed anyone would have a problem with it, and like I say you can't always as a child express your discomfort with something others present as totally normal.

To be honest having thought about it some more I think it is hang-ups I have with my own body, which I will obviously try not to pass to the DCs. I'm not comfortable with it, mind, but as I said before, I wouldn't be rude or unpleasant to somebody - I'd prefer it if they didn't but then there are all sorts of things I'd prefer people not to do that they are perfectly entitled to do if you see what I mean!

I was wondering the same, Edge. Nudey-roody, fine; nudey rudey (or bidet-ruddy, as autocorrect would have it, implies that there's something rude; which you obviously don't actually think, unlucky.

lljkk Apologies in advance if I'm having a bit of a blonde moment...but I'm not sure if I complete understood your post ? Do you mean that you think paedophiles can be rehabilitated ? (Personally I don't) And I'm well aware that most sexual offences are committed by a close relative having had an uncle convicted for this a few years back. (He molested his grand-daughter and I know of at least 3 other incidents with girls in our family that were not reported). He was convicted in his 50's but his wife has somehow managed to convince herself that this was a one off incident and he developed a sexual attraction for children later in life. Gold medal to anyone that can figure that one out...

I'm don't think that the sight of any/every child will inflame a paedophile with passion or whatever the hell takes hold of them and cause them to reoffend....but it's kind of hard to know if they have a "type" and therefore I prefer to keep my kids clothed on the beach. By clothed I mean swimming costume and trunks not a burqua. It's complicated subject, isn't it...I know I'm probably not making any sense as others have said the these people can get as much kicks out of seeing kids in swimming clothes or underwear as being naked.....Fuck it, maybe I will put them in burquas

Believe me, I recognise that a school age child stripping off on a crowded beach to roll her wet self in the sand and get it stuck in all those bits which people worry about getting sandy is not normal. It was not remotely my choice, either. Trust me, my childrens love of nudity really is not influenced by me (and sometimes worries their father. )

Oh I accept that for you Gubbins, I was just trying to explain how I felt as a child, really!

I'll probably have a little stripper myself! and maybe if I do, I'll relax a bit. Not sure really!

Justin, I'm like you, a pair of trunks or a little cossie - fine!

You could have a boy like my nephew, who, no matter how many times he was begged not to, had a talent for whipping his willy out seconds before the shutter clicked on any group family photo. :)

Read about half the thread, and it appears there is a sharp divide.

I used to live by a London park with a paddling pool, and if we were passing in the summer and DS wanted to go in, we'd just strip him naked and do it. (Only if it was warm enough not to worry about towels).

We did this until he was three (when we moved out of London), but I still wouldn't think twice about it.

As a few people have said, I let him take the lead as to whether or not he wants to cover up or not, and will do the same with DD. The thought of girls being told to cover their chests way before breasts appear when boys can go topless makes me , actually.

I remember being in Barbados (honeymoon), and being amazed at how prudish all the Americans were wrt bare flesh.

I remember reading an 'interview' with Robert Black, who murdered at least four girls in the 1980s, who stated he would go to beaches and parks on hot days with the sole intention of hoping to see a child getting changed, or naked.

Which is all pathetic and no need for people to change their behaviour.

Read about half the thread, and it appears there is a sharp divide.

I said right at the beginning that it would be about 50/50 so OP might as well do as she wishes.

I am American. I find it shocking that anyone that would feel a need to cover up a baby/toddler for purposes of "modesty."

Doesn't any public pool (or beach, too, I suppose) have rules about nappies to prevent floaters?

The rudey bit was sticking her bottom out and waggling it - which she only did within close family and a habit which I'm sad to say she got off her father ...but at least he keep that behaviour within our family (ie not in front of 'PILs' etc)! - at least as far as I know he does - I hope so at least...