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Original poster

I'm not linking to the DM, but Barrister Barbara Hewsin suggests lowering the age iof consent to stop the scapegoating of old men accused of abuse.

140 replies

INeedThatForkOff · 09/05/2013 08:15

I've been very glad to see that times have moved on since my teachers husband tried to assault me on a Year 9 camping trip. I'd be outraged if what happened to me 20+ years ago happened to my DD now.

However Barbara Hewson suggests that 'misdemeanours' such as Ms Hewson argues that 'touching a 17-year-old?s breast, kissing a 13-year-old, or putting one?s hand up a 16-year-old?s skirt' could be addressed by lowering the age of consent to 13.

It was only a matter of time, I suppose, before views like this were reported.

OP posts:
MrsKoala · 09/05/2013 11:21

good grief, she is odious.

ExcuseTypos · 09/05/2013 11:36

" Not if said 14yo is now a mature adult: stale complaints of sexual offences are not what we expect of mature adults. Get over it"

Shock Angry

anklebitersmum · 09/05/2013 11:36

I'm sure she'd feel exactly the same if it was her son or daughter or grandson/daughter not

Still, if ever (God forbid) they were unlucky enough to be in that position at least now they know that Mummy/Grandma will be acting for the pervert Hmm

She reads as a dreadful dreadful woman with morally repugnant opinions.

Greythorne · 09/05/2013 11:43

I really wonder if anyone agrees with her?

I think twenty years ago, possibly.

But I am so relieved to see times have moved on.

I can't imagine any sane person defending her views.

EldritchCleavage · 09/05/2013 11:50

I said on the other thread that her article had a couple of good points on needing a fair trial process but was unpalatably dismissive of the women and girls involved. It also ignores the need not just to enforce the law but by doing so, to reaffirm the moral values that underpin it: we as a society do not tolerate this behaviour towards children in particular, but also adults. It's hardly going to stop or reduce if we all collectively just don't fucking bother, is it?

I am also concerned by her assumption that these things were trivial and did not especially bother or damage the women and children concerned.

As for bothering old men, they may be old, but there is every reason to think in Stuart Halls' case that his abuse continued, and was escalating in the sense that his victims were getting younger (not fit enough to subdue 14 year olds, he'd moved to 9 year olds). Why on earth shouldn't a person of 83 be prosecuted if he is an habitual offender who continues to pose a danger to children?

Presumably she thinks that after, say, 1970 no one should have bothered prosecuting Nazis who shoved people into gas ovens on the grounds it was all a long time ago and they're knocking on a bit?

People only seem to come up with these arguments in relation to sexual offences against women and girls. If he'd held up a post office with a sawn-off in 1970 and just been found out, I doubt many people would be arguing for him to be let off on the basis it was all so long ago. Whether Hewson cares to admit it or not, her article does say something (a not very nice something) about her attitudes to sexual offences and the women and girls who suffer them (or not, as she would have it).

LineRunner · 09/05/2013 12:02

Koala The charges being brought against these older men aren't 'just' for a bit of bum-slapping, though. They are for pretty serious often predatory sexual offences.

People like the repugnant lawyer who try to re-contextualise offenses as being trivial because of the decade in which they occurred are ignoring the fact that Yewtree is only pursuing very serious allegations which would have been then, as they would be now, serious offenses at the time they were committed.

And Stuart Hall pleaded guilty.

mrsdinklage · 09/05/2013 12:06

And just before Stuart Hall pleaded guilty he put all his assets in his wife's name

MrsKoala · 09/05/2013 12:16

i know that Line my point is about attitudes towards the 70's/older men etc which is common. Hewson is reflecting an opinion which we may not agree with but a lot of other people do to a degree. Therefore i am talking about, a) their opinions being given a platform so that we can openly discuss it and b) how to change them so that predators cannot hide behind them. I have never said my points were in relation to the specific case/s Hewson is referring to. The acceptable 'bum slapping' is the beginning of the sliding scale, once we challenge this we can eliminate some of the excuses made for rape.

samandi · 09/05/2013 12:23

How would lowering the age of consent from 16 to 13 affect the legality of abuses or "misdemeanors" of girls aged under 13 and 16 and over?

samandi · 09/05/2013 12:24

" Not if said 14yo is now a mature adult: stale complaints of sexual offences are not what we expect of mature adults. Get over it"

WTAF?

ComposHat · 09/05/2013 12:27

Her claims are a nonsense....touching someone in that way is a sexual assault regardless of their age.

The notion of an age of consent is interesting and a blunt tool: it criminalises a 15 year old and 16 year old having sex, but does nothing about a 60 year old targeting 16 year olds for sex.

I know the law is not good at dealing with grey areas, but in the two cases above, one seems vile and exploitative and it isn't the illegal act.

Binkyridesagain · 09/05/2013 12:28

She just wants older men to have access to younger girls without fear of prosecution.

Does she know something that could lead to further prosecutions?

samandi · 09/05/2013 12:31

Touching a 17-year-old?s breast, kissing a 13-year-old, or putting one?s hand up a 16-year-old?s skirt, are not remotely comparable to the horrors of the Ealing Vicarage assaults and gang rape, or the Fordingbridge gang rape and murders, both dating from 1986. Anyone suggesting otherwise has lost touch with reality.

ARE people suggesting they are the same thing, though?

fromparistoberlin · 09/05/2013 12:32

she must have woke up and thought:

How can I make everyone really fucking hate and despise me today?

and she suceeded!!!!

it wont happen but am sure alot of middle aged men are saying the same think, dorty old giffers

maybe they should move to Angola, the age of constent is 12 there
actually, that sounds like I am condoning child abuse tourism, scrap that

I am just suprised she was fucking stupid enought to say it!!!!

CAREER SUICIDE

fromparistoberlin · 09/05/2013 12:34

"I really wonder if anyone agrees with her?"

erm, YES. shit loads of men will agree with her! especially 60-70 year olds.....

my Italian FIL admires Silvio Berlusconi as he is such a stud

Wannabestepfordwife · 09/05/2013 12:34

I've always thought the legal system and judiciary system are unduly lenient on child sex offenders. I know this may sound sexist but I would expect a woman to have more sympathy and sensitivity.

LineRunner · 09/05/2013 12:42

To be honest, while I find bum-slapping nauseating, and I am aware of what it represents, I do think the key focus right now should start with the more serious offences precisely because of the depths to which this nasty rapey-touchy culture is embedded.

Rape and abuse apologists have always used women's objections to 'bum-slapping' as a way of laughing at and denigrating anyone who expressed opposition to indecent and sexual assaults on girls and women.

The current focus by Yewtree on serious sexual assaults, leading to guilty plea(s), is finally exposing that assaults actually happened, they were bloody serious, and can be successfully prosecuted.

It's probably not surprising that many of the 'old school' are floundering.

MrsKoala · 09/05/2013 12:50

Yes i agree Line. I just think it may also be an opportune time to tackle all those apologists and show them that this is the thin end of the wedge. I know a lot of people who agree views which are tied up with the bum slapping, grab a bit of 'crumpet', benny hill type who say things like 'cry rape' and believe the victims are to blame if they 'led someone on' or in the case of some of the recent scenarios, 'young girls who knew what they were doing' etc. While these views are pervasive then you will also get representatives like Hewson who express these opinions. So i think it's time for a campaign saying, these things are NOT culturally acceptable anymore.

SamCandour · 09/05/2013 12:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976 · 09/05/2013 12:52

I saw this in the Times this morning

I did this face Shock Shock Angry Angry

ComposHat · 09/05/2013 12:55

It's probably not surprising that many of the 'old school' are floundering.

I can't see how touching anyone without their consent in anyway - let alone on their backside/breasts is anything but a sexual assault. Whilst obviously not in the same league as Stuart Hall/Jimmy Saville, it is always vile and unacceptable. As a male I am constantly ashamed and embarrassed by the way older males leach and paw younger women. (I hope this is a generational thing rather than an age thing.)

I worked with an older male colleague who was very 'all hands on deck' with young female colleagues and always claimed he was 'just being friendly' but he was fairly selective in those he targeted, those who he knew or suspected wouldn't complain or punch him in the chops. It all seemed very predatory and bullying until it was put a stop to. (Amazingly not by sacking him but by getting a male manager to give him a quiet 'you can't be too careful these days\PC gone mad talk' rather than booting him out of work.)

Miggsie · 09/05/2013 13:06

This is deeply sad - I have never met any deeply mature 14 year olds (as she terms them) but I have met many people who were deeply emotionally scarred by childhood expriences such as she thinks are no big deal.

I do wonder what happened in her family to make her normalise this? How emotionally closed off is she?

I know of one family where the standard punishment for using the wrong knife and fork at meal times was being hit on the knucles with a horse whip. All 3 kids thought this was fne - it was my look of sheer horror when I was told that made the oldest girl (then 25) twig that maybe, just maybe this was not ok.

My view remains that if a man feels he has to express himself by groping me I will feel the equal need to express myself by kneeing him in the balls. Why do they look surprised at this? Are they so used to female subservience that they can't see us as people?

I do wonder what the moral compass of Barbara Hewsin's immediate male relatives is? Telling assaulted women to "get over it" is a very priveledged male response.

EldritchCleavage · 09/05/2013 13:17

I feel a bit sorry for her colleagues at Hardwicke Chambers. It's a collective of self-employed barristers, they have no control over what she does and it is probably pretty hard to get rid of her, but they've now been tainted by association.

FreyaSnow · 09/05/2013 13:47

Composhat, it is not a criminal offence to have sex with somebody below the age of consent if you are very close in age - 15 and 16 for example. It is very clearly stated in the legislation that the purpose of the law is not to prosecute people who are close in age where both have consented.

So the age of consent laws are in place solely to prosecute adults who abuse children.

MsFanackerPants · 09/05/2013 13:49

Her comments about touching and kissing not being as bad as gang rape etc don't require the law to be changed. The law already recognises this in the sentencing guidelines so anybody found guilty of touching genitals has a greater sentence than somebody touching on shoulders or face. I don't see anybody saying a punch in the face isn't as bad as having your head stamped on so let's legalise face punching.

"Victimhood" is not fetishised. Or at least it hasn't been for me. I've spent years trying to "get over it" and wondering why I can't. It's only been in the last couple of years I've accepted that actually something very terrible did happen to me and it was not my fault in anyway.

I don't think any change to the law is needed. What's needed is a wholesale change in attitudes towards women and gjrls to understand that their bodies are not there for the taking.