To feel disgusted that Elle magazine are touting porn star Sasha Grey as a "feminist"?

[Scarletohello]

So I have seen a lot of porn and Sasha Grey is a very popular porn star. Mainly because she does very extreme stuff, for example the kind of scenes where she is gagged with a man's cock to the extent that she us virtually vomiting. And she acts like she is loving it. One of the quotes in the magazine article from one of her films is, " Rip my fucking holes open". It's the most brutal, mistogynistic, woman hating porn you can possibly experience. And she is talking about it as being liberating and empowering for women. I'm no prude but her stuff sickens me. And now she's written an erotic novel and has an interview in Elle magazine where the cover line is, " writer, actress, feminist,porn star".
Makes me absolutely despair of where we as women have come to if she is being described as a "feminist". She is absolutely everything anti feminist to me. Any thoughts? Also if you have never seen her stuff, prepare to be appauled...

Binks, I don't like boxing either.

That's not what I think. And my name is a quote from my favourite comedy series. It's just a silly joke.

I'm not saying your views aren't valid and sure, someone has to have them. But I think it would be very rude for me to tell everyone that they have to have sex to my rules. So I don't think you should get to tell everyone they have to obey yours.

Sock- this is my point. Women should look at porn to see what the fuck is going on there!! It affects us ALL. That is why I feel so bloody outraged that a mainstream magazine such as Elle is giving thus woman credibility. It's NOT OK!!!

I don't want you to "obey" I want you to think about what you are saying

My point is, why don't you hate on Tom Hardy for making money out of glorifying and encouraging violence?

Amazing what passes for feminism these days.

That dreadful Caitlin Moran is another porn apologist, isn't she?

(as an aside - isn't boxing ususally man against man? Not man (and man and man) on woman??)

I actually can't get over the latent stupidity of the 'it's her choice and she gets paid ergo it's empowering' argument. Apart from the indefensible assumption that any choice is 'free' as in, baseless, unrelated to inculcated value systems, 'innate' or 'natural', are we really soooo beholden to market values that we unproblematically equate financial wealth with absolute empowerment?

Anyway point I want to make is, why are we confusing people's personal sex lives with the porn industry? It's not about SG' s intimate relationships, it's about a product she sells. Which normalises violence against women rather than framing it as a fetish, and does so without critique or comment, as we would expect in other cultural products which give positive reviews of socially unaccepted behaviour/ individuals (e.g. films with sympathetic Nazis in, for the poster making that point). In fact, it is the lack of critique or comment that the product contains which frames it as 'normal'. Any other cultural product with a similarly (though not sexually) masochistic character would require a context, a comment on where that behaviour came from. The lack of context in pornography wrt such 'desires' is what presents it as normal, straightforward, unequivocally sexy, and therein lies its potential for harm. It's FA to do with policing ppl' s personal choices and everything to do with agreeing to public values that do not perpetuate harm against individuals or groups of ppl within that public.

Sock - if you think there are appearance-related threads on feminism saying you can't do things and be a feminist you are almost certainly misremembering.
You may perhaps be confusing feminists saying you can't do things, with feminists saying certain things are not in themselves feminist acts: thus, not 'you can't be a feminist and shave your legs' but 'shaving your legs is not in itself a feminist act'.
You may also be confusing 'you can't be a feminist and do x' with 'the prevalence of x is a feminist issue' (as in threads about plastic surgery, where in threads of hundreds of posts only a tiny number of posters, generally not FWR regulars, tend to make the claim that you can't be a feminist and have plastic surgery.)
I am a feminist. I do not wear high heels. I believe that the prevalence of high heeled shoes is a feminist issue. I have never said and would never say that the moment a woman puts on a high-heeled shoe she immediately stops being a feminist.
The distinction is fairly subtle but I'm sure you can grasp it

Binks - I haven't noticed any poster on this thread trying to get other people to have to their rules.
If you think there are posts where posters try and to this, which posts do you mean?

Scarleto I have to say I also think that those posters chirping about how 'harmless' porn is probably haven't seen all that much of it.

I'm saying I'm perfectly happy with my sex life. I don't need rescuing from it or myself. I know dozens of people who see the same way as me. None of us have any broken bits or long term issues.

So right back at you, consider that.

have sex to their rules, even! - and also of course

I hate boxing actually. The thought of watching two people hurting each other for money and a crowd's pleasure turns my stomach.

But the thread's about porn. Violent porn. And whether presenting violent porn as some kind of proto-entrepreneurial career step is a good idea. I think not, personally.

OMG, Binks, no one was trying to rescue you.
(Sorry, but I'm laughing out loud, here.)
Are you OK?

Binks, it is possible to have issues with more than one contentious area at a time

I have opinions on all sorts of thins. But we are talking about a porn actress known for having violent and degrading acts done on her for the delectation of others being touted as a "feminist"

I understand now

This thread is actually all about Binks and his/her sex life

How silly of us not to notice that

That was a really eloquent post, sparklyboots. Very well written.

It is time for me to go to bed now. It's been an interesting debate. Good to have views from each of the extreme ends of the spectrum.

Night all!

Blinks -you know this thread is about violent porn? And some shitty article linking it, via a 'star' of the genre, to feminism?

Cos you seem to be confused, have whatever kind of sex you want, I doubt anyone here gives two hoots....

Have you never taken part in a discussion about porn vs feminism before? Cos you seem to be at ground zero. It's all whooshing over your head but you have so little insight you don't even realise.

Hey, Any Fucker, you should be honoured to be blessed with my candour! ;)

Ok really must go now. I hadn't realised how late it had got.

Your "humour" is quite jarring in this context, Binks.

For reference, in the interview with SG in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago she said she earned $200,000 a year from porn.

I think if you want to have violent sex with a partner or in an environment where you know you are fundamentally respected and are essentially role playing the opposite then that's one thing but a huge proportion of the audience will be watching because they have no respect for women. I don't think feeding this should fall under the banner of feminism.

Anyway very glad I posted this, has set off a v interesting discussion and I'm not left fuming about this on my own. I keep banging on but we need to witness this stuff and we need to talk about it. Saying oh I never watch porn, doesn't mean it's not out there...

Scarlet, do you think this thread has made you think more deeply about your own contribution to the porn industry ?

This thread has been very enlightening from both points of view. And as a lurker rather than an opinion poster the fact it almost ended up a bun fight but then didn't, has kept me reading and therefore being educated.

Please can we not ruin it now?

Who is "ruining" it ?