To think that nearly 2 will be old enough to go to a family wedding without mum?

[DaddyAndDaughterTime]

My mum is getting remarried next year in france. We live in South england, so it is a short flight away. I have said about this to my ex, and that I want to take our daughter as all my family will be together which happens very rarely as we all live far apart.
She has said she will be much too young, and to tell my mum to visit her here if she wants to see her. She doesn't seem to understand that this is our daughters family as well not just mine.

I have said I would be happy to fly out with her the day before the wedding, go to the wedding with her, and then have a flight booked for that evening so she can sleep on the plane back, then be home by morning, rather than staying a few days.
She is saying it's not going to happen as she isn't happy with her being in a different country. Is this a reasonable 'mother thing' or should I push the point? I have mentioned to my mum and she said she doesn't want my ex to be invited as she doesn't get on with her.

[Nishky]

I took my 2 year old ds on a plane to France and he loved the whole thing.

I fail to see why a trip on a plane with a parent will traumatise this child as some posters suggest

Is the separation anxiety really coming from the child?

[jacks365]

Thing is though that we don't know the background. Its not uncommon at 11 months as the child is now for there to be separation anxiety but not earlier so how come the dad hasn't been taking his daughter out from the word go. Yes it could be an over protective mum but it could also just as easily be a dad who hasn't bothered till recently and in real terms is a stranger to the child.

Op if you have been constant in your child's life from birth and there are no medical issues just the mothers reluctance for you to spend more time with your daughter, then i'm afraid it looks like you may have to go the court route to get meaningful access. You taking the child out on your own should have been happening from the word go.

[SolomanDaisy]

Just stop talking about it for a while and agree you'll discuss it again much closer to the time. When you have a clingy 11 month old it's impossible to imagine how much they will have changed in a year.

I have a 22 month old and am the primary carer. DS is v close to DH and they happily go off and do stuff together for hours and DH still does stuff like nappies daily. DS is confident and verbal and able to explain what he wants. I'm still not sure any of us would be happy for DH to take him abroad for two nights. But that's our situation and plenty of our friends would do it.

[Hissy]

I wouldn't let anyone who only sees my child 6 hours A WEEK take my 7 yo away out of the country, let alone an insecure toddler.

Deal with the insecurity, step up as an EQUAL parent, work towards 50/50 and see how it goes.

I don't think the wedding is viable as a trip. There's not enough time for you to get up to speed.

[Wishiwasanheiress]

Popping back to see what's happened... Well op ur getting lots of thoughts aren't u! I agree with upping the visits/lengths. I agree with being supportive to the mum. U appear to think this sensible too.

I think this event is important. I think assuming things go well over next few months there's no reason u shouldn't take her. Naturally assuming all relationships are good. Can I suggest including mum in arrangements? Flight choosing? Hotel? Facilities? This might help her feel more comfortable and part of it? Exclusion could sadly make it worse. It's going to be hard to realise that quite a chunk of dds life she really won't be part of as u are not together.

Still, all things considered I feel u should be able to go with dd. hope u have a good event.

[BitOutOfPractice]

Lets face it, this is all about the mother and her feelings (about her role as mother, about her ex, about her MiL) and nothing to do with what she thinks is best for the child. She is trying to control the situation.

This is a visit planned for a years time. She has no idea how the child will be by then. But she has already vetoed the visit. That says it all IMO

[BitOutOfPractice]

And before I get jumped on a speak as a lp who's ex takes my dc away regularly. Even gasp of horror abroad to third world countries like France

[doublecakeplease]

I think you're being very patient op. Both parents should have time alone with babies. I've seen DP with DS when he thinks they're alone and it's just different somehow than when I'm in the room and we're 'sharing'. They have their own funny little 'in' things just like DS and i have when we're alone - things that surely can't be built up when another parent is helicoptering in the room.

The mum is being silly and trying to push herself as favourite. Lots of us have to leave your babies for work - sometimes they cry but on the whole they're fine once settled.

I don't think mum should have complete dibs on a child - op I'm certainly not suggesting you go demanding things but you need to be more assertive. If the baby cries then distract her - i can guarantee that sometimes she'll cry when she's alone with her mum and mum will try every distraction under the sun and she won't settle without a battle - its what babies do. Doesn't make anyone an incapable parent.

Good luck!

[Isiolo]

Precisely jacks!

There is no well in hell, this is as straight forward as the mother just being controlling/over protective.

If dad had been involved from the start, he would not be on 3 hour supervised visits, at 11 months old!

There is more to this

[ChocsAwayInMyGob]

I titally agree that this is more about the mother than the child.

The child is clingy because she is not allowed to eb awy from her mother ever.

I was away from my DS2 for 3 nights when he was 5 months old. It hurt to leave him, and was wonderful to see him again, but he hasn't got a clue to this day that I even went. He often cried when I left the room, but he still had time without me and no harm came to him.

In other words, OP, the mother has wayyy too much control and will keep the child clingy if she keeps refusing to let anyone else have her. I would consider asking nicely for more time with your daughter, building up to time alone, so that when BFing has ended, you can have overnights. If the mother is still refusing, then try more formal methods.

This is your daughter, not just your ex's. She seems to be forgetting that.

[MrTumblesBavarianFanbase]

OP when you suggest your DD's mother coming to France with you but staying in a hotel separate from the wedding, surely you will offer to pay for her travel and hotel? As she will be going purely to help you with something important to you and your family, not because it is something she wants to do or that will be enjoyable for her? If you offer to pay, and she will not be working by then, then she would be U to refuse. However if you expect her to finance her trip (as you implied on p 6 I think) you would be U IMO.

I think YABU to expect your ex to say yes to this trip unless you pay for her to go along, but not attend the actual wedding, given that at the moment you have never looked after your DD alone! However if you do manage to build up to having her alone for full days and an overnight locally to your ex before hand, then she would be U to say no - but only once that has actually happened, not based on a theoretical possibility of it happening.

Essentially the wedding plan is all about you and your mum, and (at age 2) of no benefit to your DD - she may not sit still and quiet through a wedding and may need to be taken out, meaning you miss the bulk of the service, and she will need to go to bed early, meaning you will miss most of the evening reception - or you will need to take her to her mum wherever she is staying and then return to the reception alone - have you thought that bit through. Given the plan is all about you and your mum having your DD present, for whatever reason, and given that you have never looked after your DD overnight or on your own, you need to be the one making compromises. IF you show yourself willing to make the compromises to allow your ex to be nearby without being out of pocket in order to help you out THEN she would BU to outright refuse to allow your DD to attend the wedding with you.

[ChocHobNob]

YANBU to want to take your daughter with you to her Grandmother's wedding, as long as you have built up your contact with her by then and there is plenty of time to.

She is BU to not even discuss it or to leave it and see how things go, nearer to the date.

[newfashionedmum]

What mr tumbles said... When you move abroad or have a wedding abroad sometimes there are people that can't make it. Yr mum won't have much time for her granddaughter at her wedding, I can see how she'd want to introduce her to her new family but that shouldn't be at the expense of your daughters confidence and security. Unfortunately separation anxiety can get more apparent as a child gets older and they're more conscious of what's going on. My DDs anxiety started at around 2.

I worry for you that by focusing on this one weekend you and your ex will become tense with each other...that every time you talk about having DD alone it'll be seen as part of an agenda on your part to take her away and will make your ex anxious and maybe defensive, it will also potentially make it hard for you to be honest and trust each other regarding how your DD copes with being with you alone. I think gradually building up your daughters relationship with you is a great idea but needs to be for its own merits not focused on that weekend away. It risks making much bigger problems for you all.

In all of this, you, your ex and your mum are the adults and your daughters needs should come first, especially at such a young age. If they are to be with her mum, and it sounds like they still might be, don't let your mums dream of her perfect wedding get in the way of your DDs confidence and security. There will be so many opportunities as she gets older to take her to your mums for visits, but only if you can focus on your relationship with your ex and your DD as paramount.

[jellybeans]

I would hate that and not be happy with it at that age. I agree with the poster that said could she go with you and you take her to wedding? Or all go (if on good enough terms). I know it is the thing these days for men to expect equal time since birth etc etc but sometimes if the mum is main carer it would be too traumatic for both to have a long time away from the baby/small child.

[cocoplops]

Sorry if this has been asked before but are you a British citizen? I know you mentioned you live in the south but I'm wondering whether as your mum is getting married in France whether you are of a different nationality? Only reason I ask is that when my parents split up when I was a toddler it was flight risk that my mum worried about as my dad was of dual nationality (wasn't an unwarranted concern). Not suggesting you would abscond!!

Aside from that on the basis of your current situation/relationship I wouldn't be happy to let my 2 (or 3yo) abroad. If you were the mother and the dad was the primary caregiver in same circs I would be of the same opinion. Think you all need to give serious thought to the practicalities and logistics of the event and try not to turn it into a tit for tat battle between the lot of you (dd mum included) cos that's not going to be good for your dd at all.

[cocoplops]

Sorry just thinking maybe my query could be a bit offensive to line parents if different nationality. Sorry my questioning is based on my own personal circumstances- maybe that sort of thing isn't a worry for others? And I don't mean to suggest that anyone with a non- British passport should be seen as a flight risk! Hopefully its not that common - but in my case it marked a very acrimonious split. Sorry...hope I haven't offended anyone

[LouiseSmith]

I would say no. If you haven't had anytime with your DD on your own as the sole parent, then I would go no.

Try having her over night once, then up it to a 2 nights, then 3, until eventually both of you are confident that DD is happy with you. At least if you do it in the same country to begin with you can easily return her to mum, if she is really inconsolable. Better than having to get on a emergency flight to bring her home.

Am I too assume your family in france do not know your DD too well considering the distance. Then you would need to make sure she was 100% confident with you.

[shewhowines]

It is too soon to say.
Mum inbu AT THE MOMENT but she would be if you do build up to having her for weekends on your own.

Leave it and see how the land lies much nearer the time. Pressurise her too much and she will dig her heals in. I would feel uncomfortable in her shoes NOW but hopefully as your DD grows older it will become apparent that it will be ok.

You need to empathise and let her know that you understand how she is feeling right now but make it clear that if you build a regular,caring at weekends, relationship that you expect to be able to take her. But agree that you will take it slowly and see how things develop.

[exoticfruits]

The answer for OP is to up the access to as much as he can manage so that in the future she will be perfectly happy.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The child is not 2 now she is not even yet 1.

I'm not sure I can blame mum for having limited knowledge as to how quickly these phases pass,chances are to her its currently a never ending worry.granted she shouldn't have said a flat out no but it does not mean she's a bitter controlling bitch that she did.

Have none of you ad a knee jerk reaction before and changed your mind when the situation warrants it?

Op before you go listening to people advocating that you go running off to court,take some professional legal advice ( from a real solicitor not just a mate) actually find out about the process the requirements and likely outcome before you invest your time and money.

People seam to forget that court should be used as a last resort and that an over riding principle of the children's act is no order should be issued when none is needed, as far as I recall the little and often ( I.e a few hours at a time with mum near by in the absence of any DV ) is one of the most usual recommended arrangements with children your dd's current age.

Obviously it may have recently changed but its most certainly what was recommended as standard in the area I live by cafcass last year.

[anklebitersmum]

Personally I think that you need to up the time you see DD and insist that you are allowed to have her for decent periods of time on your own. You are an equal parent in the eyes of the law and should be treated as such by your ex.

Clearly your DD is going through 'that stage' when children do get a bit shrieky if you potter out of the room but the solution is not to allow DD to rule the roost, it is to teach her that her Mum and you do come back.

Maybe Mum could go out for a couple of hours for the duration of your visits in DD's home for a couple of weeks? That way DD learns Mum's coming back and gets some one on one Dad time in a familiar environment. Then do going out for a couple of hours you and DD and build it up from there.

I see children of a similar age doing their royal nut when left at nursery. Mum's have to do the eeek thing and the children are fine-usually within minutes of Mum heading out the door. Usually within a week the child is bounding into nursery with no issues at all.

As for the wedding, I'd say that provided you actively involve yourself properly in twelve months time it won't be a drama for her to go with you certainly not on DD's part anyway Children should be afforded the widest circle of family wherever possible. That includes you and your family.

To be frank I wonder how your ex copes if she never leaves DD's side

[pigletmania]

Isiolo from what I gathered from op there are No other issues. Mum might be a bit verprotective due to dd health early on in babyhood. The op should start having unsupervised visits and build it up gradually and see nearest the time

[bathroomneedsaclean]

OP I've thought about your posts a lot. As soon as you said your baby was in scbu for the first important weeks of life, a lot of this made sense. Are you aware that prem babies / babies hospitalised like this early on are much more likely to be very clingy - not just around typical 'separation anxiety' stages, but all the time? - not necessarily any fault of the parent if this happens. My 8mo is, and has been from word go - I didn't intend to do 'attachment parenting', but I've kind of had to! Its getting easier though - but no way I can leave her for more than a couple of hours even with DP without major meltdown.

Being separated from her baby for nights etc during those first weeks in hospital, and the worry about the baby's health are likely to have been a very traumatic experience for your XP even if your baby is now fine. Does she have post-natal anxiety perhaps? (common response to scbu experience, crippling like pnd in many ways - you are typically terrified of something terrible happening to your baby) Added to this, she has presumably been parenting her very needy baby on her own for the last 11 months - emotionally and physically exhausting. For all those people saying their babies / their partners / themselves would have been fine with this, well good for you, but every baby / parent is different, and babies who have had a difficult start in life ime can need extra security not 'toughening up'. Check out bliss.org.uk - they give very helpful advice and have a helpline.

Paying for her to go along with you sounds like a brilliant plan, and would be a kind thing to do for your DD and XP. XP could always do the some childcare so that you could enjoy the evening do, so everyone benefits. If she struggles with letting you take the baby without her, no way would she consider an unknown family member babysitting or babysitting service! As others have said, your long term relationship with dd and XP are the priority. By putting this solution on the table now, should DD need it, you will save XP months of worry about this - it that's her frame of mind.

FWIW, I wouldn't be happy about DD's dad taking her abroad for a few days without me - DP and me both know she wouldn't cope well, and we wouldn't want to put her through it - we may feel differently when she's 2, but I doubt it. I don't judge others who would be fine with it - and envy your chilled approach and relaxed, flexible babies!

[Imsosorryalan]

Well said bathroom. Every family is different as are children and only you and your Xp know the best way to help your dd feel happy about this. Besides, worse case scenario, if your dd does find it tough I'm not sure the wedding guests would appreciate a constant crying baby at the wedding!

[puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE]

Is there any reason bar anxiety as to why your Ex needs to be there?