to be very suprised at the school letter about Halal meat?

[fromparistoberlin]

opended DS bag and read a letter with a voting slip basically saying

alot of parents have asked for Halal meat (fair enough)
The school dinner providers can only do Halal OR non-Halal (erm we are in London, slightly surpised)

so we either vote for ALL Halal, or non Halal

so basically an ethical dilemna!

Vote A, feel like a bigot

Vote B, feel slightly uncomfortable that something I dont really fully understand is being imposed

I am going to write and say this is a really unfair way to handle it and they should fucking change suppliers, we are in London FFS

nice little ethical mind fuck THANKS school!

[hackmum]

A lot of people are under the illusion that "stunning" is less cruel because it renders the animal unconscious. But all that stunning does is to paralyse the animal so it can't move or cry out in pain. It's more cruel, in my view, than not stunning.

[dayshiftdoris]

'Pander to this and you will get all sorts of demands'
'My son wont eat Halal meat'

Seriously?

I dont see the difference... my experience of halal dishes comes from working in a large hospital where they have had halal dishes on the menu for years... a good majority have the halal dish because the meat quality was better!

I don;t know how they can't offer it... then again we get FSM and my son doesnt get a choice at all some days!

[PickledLiver]

There's a very small image of a dead cow in this article I'm providing, but I don't think that should put you off reading it. It's very small, it's there once, and as soon as you've read the title you've passed it for good.

Yes, it is horrible. But so it our method of killing animals. For those that don't want to read the article, I'll summarise. We assume that the electric current given to animals in slaughterhouses renders them unconscious. It doesn't. There is proof that electricity paralyses, but not anaesthetises. In other words they, can still feel pain and are able to panic but they are frozen.

There is discussion that perhaps traditional killing methods in slaughterhouses are perhaps more cruel than Halal & Kosher; if an animal is distressed or aware of it's impending death, it cannot be classified Halal or Kosher. Not the case for traditionally slaughter meat.

FWIW I am not religious. But, I don't agree that because something is different and we aren't educated very much about it makes it more cruel.

[ladymariner]

No to halal meat....purely on animal welfare grounds. I would withdraw from school meals if they knowingly served halal meat.

[whatsleep]

I wouldn't imagine the chicken in school dinners comes from higher welfare birds, it will come from battery farms where the birds will have lived in squaller from the day they are born until they are slaughtered? Is the way other animals are slaughtered under halal beliefs, really in comparison, any worse? Packed lunches all the way in our house!

Just googled and found that in the UK around 90% of the animals slaughtered via halal methods are stunned before the throat is cut.

[Cloverer]

If you think cuttiing an animal's throat is unethical, then what is shooting a bolt through its head? Animal welfare concerns are just an excuse when really the objection is about a minority culture "imposing".

[RooneyMara]

'If there is absolutely no other food available, then a Muslim is allowed to eat non-halal food.[3] Surah 2:173 states:


If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin on him.'

from wiki

however reading that page makes me realise how bloody horrible meat production is in any case.

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

I think the Sikh problem is a bit of a red herring. By definition the Sikh population of the school is a minority, presumably a very small one, and they retain the same choice as the Muslim majority currently have; have the veggie option or eat a packed lunch,

[Cloverer]

Industrial meat production is cruel, especially cheap meat production which is what schools will be serving. Focussing on the last 30 seconds and making it into a huge ethical concern is ridiculous. Just be honest about what your objection is - a cultural one.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I'm pretty sure that animal welfare reasons actually mean "I'm under the misguided impression that other meat is killed nicely with no cruelty"

[Moominsarehippos]

Our school has meat or veggie. No pork but ham (don't ask, I have no idea how that works). No-one has ever asked for halal and we have quite a few arab embassy kids there (they are pretty much 'when in Rome').

[Moominsarehippos]

Our school has meat or veggie. No pork but ham (don't ask, I have no idea how that works). No-one has ever asked for halal and we have quite a few arab embassy kids there (they are pretty much 'when in Rome').

[PessimisticMissPiggy]

Good point about Sikhs. My colleague ordered vegetarian food when we were eating out for years then I heard him asking about a new steak place in town.

I asked him about it later and he told me that he does not follow any other religious practices and to eat halal meat would be to do so. He loves his meat and usually contacts a venue beforehand to ask the source of their meat products. He also has a good relationship with a local farm shop.

The halal situation in our city with places serving halal irritates him immensely!

Yanbu!

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

I would just go veggi to be honest. I don't know enough about any of it to make an informed decision so veggi would be a safer bet. Although one would have to sincerely hope that as vegetables would then be a far more important part of the meal that they would not be soggy mush.

Eliminates cross contamination, mistakes, mis labelling issues etc.

I would hope however tht the school would employ the services of someone who can ensure the nutritional quality of the meal. given that the restrictions of ingredients plus catering for allergies can make life difficult if kitchens aren't staffed by people who actually know about what it is they are making.

[VinegarDrinker]

I love the "my child would refuse to eat the vegetarian option" posts. Presumably your children refuse macaroni cheese, pasta bake, jacket potato with beans, veg lasagne, chips etc etc?

The one about under 5s not having the gut maturity for a veggie diet is a new one on me too. DS's nursery is fully veggie.

[GibberTheMonkey]

I thought people were trying move away from religion in schools...

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

I agree vinegar some (not all) would hear the words " vegetarian option" and immediately assume their kids woulnt eat it or that its lacking nutritional value because there's no meat. But when u think about it, when a kid has cereal and toast for breakfast , macaroni chese and veg for lunch and a peanut butter and jam sandwich crisps and carrot sticks for lunch just how much meat have they eaten? None , and they didn't even realise.

[Wheresmycaffeinedrip]

For tea not lunch

[Patchouli]

I agree with cloverer and sockreturningpixie
and I don't think links to Peta help

[Cloverer]

PETA are against halal - that does not mean they are for standard slaughter

[mrsjay]

I ate in a subway awhile back and i was annoyed when i found out i had eaten Halal meat, it should be labelled properly.

Why were you annoyed ?

[mrsjay]

Industrial meat production is cruel, especially cheap meat production which is what schools will be serving. Focussing on the last 30 seconds and making it into a huge ethical concern is ridiculous. Just be honest about what your objection is - a cultural one.

this I also wish people would be more honest slaughter is slaughter an animal is going to be in discomfort however it dies, and I can't imagine a hahal abatoir is any different from a non abotoir? all animals are slaughtered

[mrsjay]

slitting the throat kills them stunning them then slitting their bellies open to drain blood kills them they are all dead just the same

[PickledLiver]

Industrial meat production is cruel, especially cheap meat production which is what schools will be serving. Focussing on the last 30 seconds and making it into a huge ethical concern is ridiculous. Just be honest about what your objection is - a cultural one.

Agree completely with this.