to think we should be really freaked out,by all the arrests for sexual abuse of children????

[Isiolo]

Firstly, I am not a 'paedophile on every corner' type of person. But I am wondering if actually, I should be??

Its a bit old news now, but more and more high profile celebs are being arrested for paedophilia in the 60s and 70s.

SO many people got away with it...for so long...Isnt this a sign that it is very widespread? and that it is pretty institutionalised??

Are celebreties more likely to be paedophiles than the rest of the population????

There doesnt seem to be much freaking out or outrage going on...I feel like there should be more

I don't see what self defence has to do with it. The idea it's relevant frightens me. If someone attacks you physically (as opposed to grooming you), you shouldn't try to fight back. You have no idea how strong they are or whether they have a knife. Teenage girls trying karate on attackers is really, really not a good idea.

Anyway.

I wanted to say about paedophilia ... I don't know how people work out statistics for 'how many' people are sexually attracted to prepubescent boys or girls. But I think it is simplistic to assume that sexual attraction is the only factor here, any more than it is in cases of rape of adults. I think it is often also about power. It is really, really sick.

I'm saying that because I think it is easy to say 'ah, but only 1 in 100 people are paedophiles' and to make yourself believe this is a small group of people who are somehow sexually utterly different from the seemingly normal folk we all meet in the street and who seem to hold down normal adult relationships.

Of course there are stereotypical 'dirty old men' your mum warned you about, but there are also people who seem totally normal.

I'm not so sure about the police doing a brilliant job, tbh. There were implications that various police forces had turned a blind eye to Jimmy Savile (or worse, colluded), and without wishing to sound all conspiracy theorist, it seems highly likely that people in positions of real power (as opposed to celebrities) were involved in some of the dreadful things that happened at children's homes in Wales and Jersey.

The only good thing to come out of this horror is that awareness of the reality of sexual abuse is growing. Abuse thrives in a culture of denial and secrecy. So many survivors of abuse carrying around a shame that is not theirs for so long. It all needs to come out. Things need to change. These men should not be protected from the consequences of what they do.
Made me feel sick reading that BBC info today about Stuart Hall. Only wish JS was still alive to face the consequences of his lies and abuse.

"It sometimes feels really unlikely that they will get through life without being assualted/abused at some point"

sadly i think this too about my own dcs. they are boys and although they seem less likely to be a victim, it's still a big worry. both myself and their father were abused as children. i wonder what makes us different from our dcs or even if we are.

i agree about giving as much armour as possible.

yes, hopefully sloth, there will be some good to arise from this

LRD my arming my dcs with karate, has come from gut-instinct. But, it does seem that advice is to defend yourself, if attacked. Obviously avoidance or escape are preferable.

I'm also a 70's child. I agree with the posters who described the 'dirty old man' in the village. We had one. We all knew who he was and gave him a wide berth.

The attitude to all this in the 70's was just completely different in that it was swept under the carpet. I remember the 'buzz' in the media when Esther Ranzson did the ground breaking pieces on child abuse on 'That's Life'. It really felt like it was the first time it had really been discussed.

It's odd how the attitude amoungst my peers was strange too (or maybe I just went to an odd school?)...I knew a handful of my classmates who had false ID, would sneak out of houses at weekends, make themselves up to look at least 18. They purposely wanted to 'get off' with older men. I remember eating up their gossipy exploits on a Monday morning. I thought at the time it was a bit 'wild' but the idea of abuse never entered my head. Was it abuse if it was consensual even though they were well under age? I feel uneasy about what I think about that.

Obviously the abuse and rage allegations in the media today are not quite the same as this story though.

What I keep wondering about. Why has no-one accused any aged rock stars yet? We used to call them groupies. The Rolling Stones in particular were notorious for it. Why has no-one brought any abuse claims against them? Was it all consensual?

I have no answers. Just mulling it over.

But no, I don't think that there are suddenly peodophiles on every street corner. I'm just glad that the tide really has finally turned towards getting proper justice for some of the victims of this awful abuse they've lived with all these years.

I remember when the Bill Wyman/Mandy smith affair was in the papers, dont remember any of the papers questioning the fact she was just 13. if anything she was described as a precocious wild child,
I also remember The Sun when they had pics of a topless 16 year old Sam fox and where positively delighting in the fact that 'she was now legal' It was sickening then and seems even more so now.

Yep, the blame was all on the woman then, no question, be she 13 or 33

The whole thing is fucking mental. What is wrong with people? My children are young but I am already dreading having to let them go out on their own. It seems that there are sick fucks everywhere

isiolo - who told you the advice is to attack? I've always been told by the police when they've come to speak about safety, you shouldn't attack.

Though I did hear the very grim idea that if you scratch someone, you'll get their DNA under your fingers.

I can't see how karate could be a good idea though - seriously, what would anyone gain by trying to kick out at someone who might have a knife or a gun?

I am the mother of a very striking daughter aged 19. Not just a case of mummy's baby is beautiful, she really is. Anyway, I have see her be oggled by older men; from cars, walking down the street a pace or so behind her. Shouted at and so on. I threw a friend of husbands out of the house for giving her an up and down that had nothing to do with her IQ level. She was 16.
It makes me rage and I do the jumping up and down shouting but just look mad. It also makes me feel helpless for my younger daughter that this is the level of respect availalbe for women at any given time in public whilst going about their business.

I think the whole crux of this is that back then it just wasn't something you reported to the police.

My mum had a headteacher who used to get girls to sit upon his knee and he'd rub his hand up and down the girls' thighs... creep yes, abhorrent, yes. It never ever occurred to my mum to involve the police, or even tell an adult, it was simply accepted as something wrong that you simply didn't talk about.

Times HAVE changed. All those people who believe they were abused now have the strength of being taken seriously on their side. They are going to speak out. They're probably all going to do it at once because suddenly IT IS OK to speak about something that happened a long time ago, it doesn't make it less wrong. For the first time they are feeling braver AND being listened to.

There will undoubtedly be some people who are lying. There will undoubtedly be some malicious accusations. There will also be a lot of revelations which are true.

I suspect that in 20 years time there won't be such an outpouring, because hopefully in 20 years time victims will feel that they will be taken seriously, and the process will be anonymous for all parties until guilt has been found.

This is a massive step in the right direction, but it IS hysterical and seems it due to such a huge backlog of cases/crimes/time.

The celebrities are not all guilty. And some of those who ARE guilty of what they're accused of could be excused. When I worked in theatres, there were no end of grubby girls queuing up for grubby sex with a grubby celebrity, perhaps some of those accused are guilty of not ID'ing everyone (still a crime, sex with a minor of course, but there are times you really do not think to check, especially if a women looks well over the age of consent and is consenting or trying to, every night for a week). I have seen both sides of this row.

These current events will create victims. It will also give some victims closure. It is nothing to be celebrated. Nothing to be shocked at either, it's 20/30 years of silence and culture exploding. It needs to be dealt with anonymously, seriously and each case needs to be seen individually. It won't be though. Hopefull at the very least it will signal the end of casual cover ups, and give victims confidence to tackle the crimes at the time.

But then a quick look at the headlines on the Sun today and its coverage of Baliotellis latest love split,,,cos he offered his girlfriend to have sex with the rest of his team.....and this is funny, newsworthy?!!!
Overall there is a fundamental disrespect of women, the intrinsic worth and value of us that hasn't changed for centuries never mind decades

"Though I did hear the very grim idea that if you scratch someone, you'll get their DNA under your fingers. "

i dont think i've ever heard that as advice but from watching tv shows i realised that scratching someone will mean their DNA is under your nails so for a long time (since childhood) i've always kept that in the back of my mind as the first thing to do if i'm attacked. and yes, it's grim to have to think like that.

LRD, I think people need to decide for themselves what the appropriate response is. The police do advise people not to defend themselves. That said, the police have not been great friends of women in relation to rape and sexual assault, and their advice should be read in the context of an institution that has a preference for a monopoly over violence.

An attacker may be armed with a knife, yes, but a gun is really quite unlikely in this country. If an attacker is armed, they are likely to pre-emptively threaten, however, which is likely to mean you wouldn't try karate on them anyway (unless you're really proficient and confident). But if they are unarmed and attacking you, and you have the skills, and running away doesn't look like a sensible possibility, then using karate or similar to defend yourself could save you from being raped. It may not, but it may.

I sincerely hope that none of us is ever in a situation where this becomes relevant, and I am sad to think that this is unlikely.

my mum is in her 50s and one teacher got a pupil pregnant when she was at secondary and several had affairs with pupils (from what she tells me) It's just sickening :( and look at all the care home stuff coming out too. It's good it is being exposed but I wonder where it will end.

I am sorry for going off at tangent before, I just find it disturbing (as do all of you I know)

ikwym MrsDV. When I met dh we used to get pips and shouts from white van drivers from behind because they thought he was female too (long hair ) I hopethis doesn't happen anymore...

slhilly that is the thing though. In a situation of being attack, most people freeze anyway and to be honest a random attack like that has the advantadge of surprise so I don't think there is a decision process gone through. Hoping one survives is usually uppermost in the mind.
My own experiencce of it was that I fought initially then realised that I was going to get a good kicking included with the rape, so "gave up" and prayed for it to finish as quickly as possible. Remaining "calmer" saved me from being beaten unconcious not being raped if that makes any sense

slhilly - I'm not trying to decide for anyone else. I'm just passing on what I understand to be the best advice going.

A gun isn't particularly unlikely, if someone is attacked. Nor is a knife, or just superior strength - if someone is attacked like that.

What is unlikely to be attacked by someone you don't know. It's much more likely for a child or teenager to be groomed so that he or she doesn't perceive what happens as an attack.

I don't believe for one minute the police give out misleading information out of dishonesty or some kind of wish not to prosecute rape.

so how come Wyman isnt arrested?