Is there ANY proven correlation between school uniform and performance?

[Hullygully]

Any data (either way) anywhere?

seeker - you've posted that the local school that your DS goes to is predominantly low income WC. How come that catchment extend all the way to your MC burb? Sounds like a longer than normal radius.

We are very rural. Both schools take children from the town and the surrounding area.

This is relevant to the uniform discussion exactly how?

It's a lot more closer to the OP than where I buy my chicken from.

Kids pick on kids from different schools. Happens everywhere. Why turn it into a kids from posh school picks on kids from poor school (or vice versa) thing?

From experience of two DDs both fashion conscious but on a budget the expensive brands just dont register. Perhaps it is a big city thing?

The people with focus on brand will do that anyway. School uniform wont stop it unless the school prescribes where the uniform can be purchased (which I believe they are not supposed to do).

The empirical evidence (ie most of the rest of the world) shows that an absence of uniform does not automatically lead to a decline in educational standards, an inability to get dressed for school or a mass outbreak in fashion based bullying.

MTS- do I have to spell it out for you?
I posted, in passing-
"Mind you, my ds wears a uniform which means he gets elbowed into the road by other kids on a regular basis- so I should probably be more anti uniform than I am. I just can't get worked up about it."

To which you replied -
" You then post how your DD gets elbowed into the streets because her uniform marks her out as a student at the posh school.
You aren't exactly painting a nice picture of a school that you want other parents to send their kids"
A piece of point missing spectacular even by your standards!

Hully, perhaps you should agree to the uniform proposal on condition that a study on performance is implemented?

"I wonder seeker if you would despise and resent selective schools, and all they represent, if your DS had actually managed to get into one? And, not just your DD?"

The boys at our selective are a bit nerdy. Shouting at the Mini United Nations Club is about as aggressive as they get. I don't think that they would live long if they started picking on the kids from the local comp :)

Didn't mean to post that. I was going to reply but decided not to. My IPad had other ideas.

LaQueen, I have been posting consistently about the iniquities of the selective system since before my ds was of school age. As you well know.

IPad eh? Unless you live in a cave you will be aware of the scandals surrounding the working conditions at the Chinese factory.making ipads. But hey, at least you are ethical enough to support organic farmers eh?

My nieces and nephews in France don't wear uniforms and still manage to be good performers- uniforms there have been abolished for years.

Mine at school was awful, hot and uncomfortable - blazers and shirts with ties.

My ds has a uniform, horrible material etc. They often have own clothes days, and the teacher says she doesn't notice a difference in behaviour or performance, just that the children look so different.

Some school uniform colours suit some, some don't. My ds wouldn't wear those colours out of school, he looks dreadful- all washed out and clashing with his hair and eyes.

seeker I would leave this thread if I were you.

You seem to have a couple of stalkers on your hands. It's really not worth it.

They don't care if I or any other parent or child agree, Catmint. They "just think"

The dreaded "we want it to be true so we've decided that it is."

Inequities of the selective system?

By default it in unequal, as iti s a selective system. Doesn't mean it is unfair though.

Your Son failed to be selected, your Daughter was. I take it there was no unfairness taht your Daughter was selected whilst other daughters were not?

Your son wasn't good enough... live with it, encourage him to achieve with what strengths he does have.

If I said that I was against the factory farming of chickens and that I shop at Costco then we both know what you would be calling me.

And you would be right.

You are promoting the injustice that you hate. The fact that you reluctantly do it doesn't really make you any better than the parent who enthusiastically embrace selective education.

Anyway, the thread is about uniforms so lets not derail it.

Hully If any of your dcs have a project to do, please encourage them to research this topic, there is so much fodder to strike blows for evidence based policy making!

I actually have no strong feelings about uniform either way, I find it quite convenient. But highhandedness I cannot bear.

I have heard that argument used. I tried to discuss the introduction of a new uniform with the head of my DCs' school. He wasnt interested, his manual on 'how to turn round a failing school' said on page 1 introduce blazers and ties because that will make it all better.

Well it hasnt.

The school is even more crap than when he started. The only reason it isnt in special measures (for the third time in my time associated with the school) is because it has been academied. The head has managed to drag the school from being mediocre to pretty much the bottom of the school league tables.

I am prepared to bet that if you surveyed parents about what they thought made a good school, a majority would list homework and uniform among the things they were looking for. Interesting that they are two of the things there is no evidence to support being benefits.

There are some schools where the problems are so dire that introducing a new uniforms policy is like pissing on a forest fire.

However. failure in that scenario doesn't remove the possibility that it wil put out a camp fire :)

I've been lurking but not posting but have to ask what an ipad has to do with school uniforms?

I am aware mts, that you're keen to tell us that one poster is a hypocrite, but to the casual observer you're coming over as slightly obsessed.

Anyway, I went to grammar school. I was bullied by some of my fellow pupils, many of whom came from nicer homes than I did. It's naive to believe your child will be immune from it in the classroom if they pass the 11+.

To drag the thread back to the OP's question. No, I don't believe there is a correlation between uniform and achievement. I didn't mind wearing one, but that isn't your question, is it?

I think you are missing the point Hully.

School uniform carries no intrinsic academic benefits. How could it? School uniform is wonderful for parents. Cheap, no competitive out-designering one another, easy to care for. Please don't mount a campaign against. DD is bad enough when it comes to leisure clothes as it is ...

Seriously seeker, do you think that parents are that feeble minded?

I want my kids to look smart. I don't want my DD to spend hours deliberating what to wear. I don't want her to bug me about getting the same Jack Wills top her friend wore to school today. I doubt that many of my fellow parents thinks that the 2nd hand jacket from their school shop makes their DCs any cleverer or is off any benefit.

However, I can see why some parents see it as a benefit. My friend's DD likes baggy skateboarding like attire which my friend hates. The uniform policy means that her DD wears 'smart' clothes 5 days in the week