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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To (privately) disapprove of my friend having a cleaner

536 replies

Unami · 29/04/2013 16:08

Ok. This may be long, but I will do my best to explain where I am coming from. My friend has a cleaner and I privately disapprove. I would never make an issue of it to her, or even bring it up. It was brought up by another friend when we were at her place for drinks. She was a bit Hmm about it, and it led to a big discussion, but I didn't say anything committal. I do recognise that she can hire a cleaner if she likes. If she likes she can hire a troupe of jugglers and have them juggle in her kitchen all day, if she likes. It's none of my business, I get that.

But I still privately disapprove. AIBU?

Her cleaner comes to her two bedroom flat twice a week and gives it a full clean, and that apparently includes hoovering all carpets and upholdstry, dusting all surfaces, polishing wood, sweeping and cleaning wooden floor in hall and kitchen, emptying waste bins in the house and taking kitchen bins round the back, cleaning mirrors, cleaning the inside of windows, full clean of the kitchen including inside the fridge, full clean of bathroom. Once a month she also gets the oven cleaned, extractor fan cleaned and polished (!?), cupboards dusted inside and out. She says she pays £45 a week for this.

It's just her in the flat. She doesn't have kids and doesn't live with her bf.

Here's my perspective. People say that having a cleaner is just like hiring any other service provider. But it's not. Domestic cleaners clean intimate, private parts of our houses, and clean up our bodily mess, and it's low paid, low status work. Yes, people hire gardeners and window cleaners, but these are roles which require specialist equipment and insurance, and they only work on the outside and periphery of your home. Yes, I recognise that cleaners are employed in offices I use, cafes I eat in and so on, but it's not really the same either. Most commerical cleaners are employed as staff and so get holiday pay, sick pay, NI etc. Agency workers don't have it so good, and I disagree with the terms of their employment too. But domestic cleaners are often paid cash in hand because employers think they are doing them a favour. But they have no holiday, sick pay - what happens if they have an accident in the house they are cleaning in. I know there are some well organised small cleaning companies, but I think they are the exception.

But most of all, I just feel like my friend is just being lazy or thinks she's too good to pick up after herself. If you are elderly or disabled or immobile, then I see nothing wrong with getting the help that you need. Likewise, if you have a busy family, and don't want to be stuck being the person who picks up after everyone else - get the help you need and show the family how much your time costs. But if you have a quiet life and are fit and healthy, I don't see why you think it's ok to have someone over to clean your toilet. I also think that people who say they are so impossibly busy with work that they can't lift a duster once a week really ought to think about cutting back their ft hours, and give others access to the surplus of work they have.

I'm not going to have a go at my friend. But I just don't think it's right.

OP posts:
Andro · 29/04/2013 20:01

"Employing a cleaner when you are perfectly capable of cleaning up your own crap, perpetuates and affirms inequalities that already exist in our society."

Rubbish! I'm perfectly capable of doing all my own cleaning, in practice I have things I prefer to do other than spend hours cleaning leather sofas and polishing all the wood furniture in a large house. I can afford to pay a professional to do it for me, so that's what I do (I'm not talking about basic cleaning/tiding, I'm talking about the saddle soap/beeswax polish/deep cleaning the sofas/wood/carpets respectively). My cleaner does a top notch job, is paid well for what she does and now has numerous clients as a result of the recommendations (and references) I given. Everybody wins!

TheseFoolishThings · 29/04/2013 20:01

I remember some of your previous posts OP (it's the way you 'bold' address posters) and I'm fairly sure you have a bit of a penchant for this sort of goady windy-uppy thing don't you?
Why not go get yourself a little cleaning job to fill your time more productively?
I'd love a cleaner by the way. I'd sit eating toast, watching telly whilst the cleaner cleaned around me. That's how much I hate cleaning!

DontmindifIdo · 29/04/2013 20:01

Employing a cleaner when you are perfectly capable of cleaning up your own crap, perpetuates and affirms inequalities that already exist in our society. - but surely that applies to buying any service, not just cleaning? Actually, have some people working for others could be argued to perpetuate inequalities, so any employer/employee situation would apply to that.

there is guilt about cleaning, but then as others have said, in many communities (and definately in the north where I grew up) keeping a clean home was a sign of being a good wife - clean front door steps and windowsills particularly. It was seen as letting your DH down to not keep your house to an acceptable standard. While woman now work outside the home, cleaning and tidying are still predominately done by woman. We might still pay lip service to equality between genders, but as a society, it does seem to be the view that men are messy and woman are not, it's much more acceptable for a single man to live in a house that's a mess than a single woman - paying someone else to do the cleaning for you does seem to be seen more as 'wrong' because it's 'cheating'.

The comments on this thread are interesting, comment after comment about how busy we are so we hire a cleaner - not "I can afford it, I prefer not to do it myself and the cleaner does a better job than me" - you can apply that to so many other services and things we pay for.

I do'nt need a cleaner really, I just want one. But then, I don't need most of the things I spend my money on. When I look at "treats" to myself, not having to clean is quite a treat, I buy 3 hours of cleaning done by someone else - I'm sure to clean to the same standard it would take me more than 3 hours, but I'm buying myself at least 3 hours of free time, probably more like 4. time is precious for most people and cleaning is dull

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 20:08

Yes of course it's 'rubbish' isn't it, it's all a level playing field out in the working world, nothing at all to do with Educational opportunities afforded to you, what gender you are, your background, your family's wealth??

Still18atheart · 29/04/2013 20:11

I think what annoys me most about this thread is the fact that op says privately then blabs the whole on mn so the whole world can see.

wintertimeisfun · 29/04/2013 20:13

i don't think it is any of your business. i bet you are the sort of person who ie gives up smoking and then lectures other people who still smoke how stupid they are. whilst i get where you are coming from towards the end of your post ie there is no protection for cleaners that are not part of an agency, people hiring clearners are providing employment that for some is a good way of earning money especially at a time when jobs are hard to come by. perhaps you are envious she has a cleaner. i don't have a cleaner myself but would love to have one that cleans really thoroughly as i hate cleaning.

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 20:16

Thesefiolishthings I have been posting on here since 2007 and have always bolded posters I was addressing, it is only recently that this has been mentioned to me as an 'issue'.

Individualism abound on MN these days- as along as something makes me happy what else is there to worry about?

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 20:17

Everyone 'blabs' about personal annoyances on Mumsnet as far as I can see.

thermalsinapril · 29/04/2013 20:21

Reading here how 99% of people are all for the cleaner, has made me think: sod it, I might just get one!

Go for it Esther, you won't look back! Smile

MrsDeVere · 29/04/2013 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fecklessdizzy · 29/04/2013 20:52

What a fuss! It's only a bloody job like any other ...

I have a minimum wage job. I also have a cleaner. She makes more an hour than I do, but I like my job and hate cleaning and she does more in two hours than I manage in a day and knowing she's coming forces me to tidy up so she can get on! Grin

She used to have a high status, high pressure job and never got to spend much time with her family so she got together with her sister and started a cleaning company.

She's happy. I'm happy. Our respective families are happy. Everyone wins.

YABU.

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 21:00

The question should be- why does she have to clean to spend more time with her family?

My parents are from working class backgrounds, my great grandmother was a maid for the Swedish nobility - this information does not validate or invalidate my view, it is irrelevant.

eccentrica · 29/04/2013 21:15

Goldenbear I agree with you, it makes me cringe when people describe their cleaner as 'lovely', 'a gem', 'wonderful', 'indispensable'. It's exactly the language that was used a generation (or more) ago and it's so patronising. If it's the same as any other service (car servicing/hairdressing/restaurant cooking etc.) why do these particular terms come up over and over again?

What's wrong with "I have a cleaner and she is very good at her job, which is cleaning". Can you imagine "my mechanic is an absolute darling, I don't know where we'd be without him"?

Fecklessdizzy · 29/04/2013 21:41

Goldenbear Her old job involved a lot of travelling and weekends away, apparently.

I'm a bit fuzzy about how regarding someone as a valued professional is patronising - you wouldn't object to saying so-and-so's teacher is lovely, would you?

Cloverer · 29/04/2013 21:44

People use those terms about nannies, babysitters, childminders, home carers - anyone who comes into your home (or you go to theirs) regularly and does something that helps you/your family.

EarlyInTheMorning · 29/04/2013 21:44

YABU and jealous of your friend. And so am I. I want a cleaner too!!

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo · 29/04/2013 21:45

it's a bit different with a mechanic or a hairdresser though, unless you require their services weekly or twice weekly in order for your home life to run smoothly or take the pressure off you. and tbh if you need to see your mechanic every week then they're not a great mechanic are they?

what cleaners do doesn't really compare to what a hairdresser or mechanic does.

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo · 29/04/2013 21:47

and by that i mean a cleaner coming in weekly or twice weekly has a far bigger effect on your life than an annual car service or getting your hair trimmed just how you like it every 8 weeks.

OrbisNonSufficit · 29/04/2013 21:58

I've never spent much time analysing cleaning but this thread has made me really ponder it. And how much I hate doing it/am crap at it, I never understand how it can be satisfying when it gets dirty within 5 seconds of finishing. But that aside...

In addition to curryeater's points, which I do agree with, I wonder if there is an evangelisation of doing your own cleaning/housekeeping in our cultural heritage (as women, I'm not aware of many men who measure self-worth by the cleanliness of their loo) because for so long it was the 'job' of women and it's quite natural to take pride in your job. I know in my mum's generation (WWII baby) it was assumed that when you had your first baby you would give up your career- for someone proud of their contribution that leaves motherhood and housekeeping to be 'good at' (or competitive about, for those who lean that way). So it makes perfect sense to be house proud from that perspective. Not relevant these days, when it's possible to make a valuable contribution in lots of other ways, but I suppose if you were brought up with those values it would stick.

There are some other interesting subtexts in the discussion about privacy (particularly about bodily functions) and some kind of upstairs/downstairs household staff thing, but I'm not British so I don't think I'm qualified to try to figure those out...

Fecklessdizzy · 29/04/2013 22:00

It's probably not very helpful to lump all cleaners together and make assumptions about them, either ... I'm sure some are badly paid and expected to work long hours - just not any of the ones that I know.

MummaBubba123 · 29/04/2013 22:06

Really? It's up to her, surely. If you're her friend... why judge her? Accept that she has quirky aspects to her (in your opinion) as, I'm sure, do you.
Who cares. If you're against it, don't get one yourself. End of!

Viviennemary · 29/04/2013 22:23

If she wants a cleaner and she can afford one why not. I just don't really get the problem you have with this. You can think she is lazy if that's what you want to think. Maybe she is. So what.

Maybe polishing, dusting and so on aren't what she wants to spend her leisure time doing. You obviously don't like the idea of a cleaner so don't have one. She does want one so does have one. What's wrong with I am a bone idle peson so I employ a cleaner. Nothing. Grin

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 29/04/2013 22:26

OP

What a jealous little person you are.

Now go back to cleaning your toilet and scrubbing your step.

NorksAreMessy · 29/04/2013 22:33

AHEM

Journalist? Hmm

ahem

Sparklyboots · 29/04/2013 22:35

Haven't read the full thread so hope I am just repeating what others have said:

YABU

I regard it as a proper and political response to capitalist patriarchy to employ a cleaner because for us to have any chance of equality, we must professionalise all the labour that goes into producing and maintaining workers. Especially because the unpaid labour done in capitalist systems usually dis-empowers the worker performing it, relative to paid labourers; and because it is notable that the majority of the unpaid work that goes into our economy is associated with traditionally feminine work.

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