Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To (privately) disapprove of my friend having a cleaner

536 replies

Unami · 29/04/2013 16:08

Ok. This may be long, but I will do my best to explain where I am coming from. My friend has a cleaner and I privately disapprove. I would never make an issue of it to her, or even bring it up. It was brought up by another friend when we were at her place for drinks. She was a bit Hmm about it, and it led to a big discussion, but I didn't say anything committal. I do recognise that she can hire a cleaner if she likes. If she likes she can hire a troupe of jugglers and have them juggle in her kitchen all day, if she likes. It's none of my business, I get that.

But I still privately disapprove. AIBU?

Her cleaner comes to her two bedroom flat twice a week and gives it a full clean, and that apparently includes hoovering all carpets and upholdstry, dusting all surfaces, polishing wood, sweeping and cleaning wooden floor in hall and kitchen, emptying waste bins in the house and taking kitchen bins round the back, cleaning mirrors, cleaning the inside of windows, full clean of the kitchen including inside the fridge, full clean of bathroom. Once a month she also gets the oven cleaned, extractor fan cleaned and polished (!?), cupboards dusted inside and out. She says she pays £45 a week for this.

It's just her in the flat. She doesn't have kids and doesn't live with her bf.

Here's my perspective. People say that having a cleaner is just like hiring any other service provider. But it's not. Domestic cleaners clean intimate, private parts of our houses, and clean up our bodily mess, and it's low paid, low status work. Yes, people hire gardeners and window cleaners, but these are roles which require specialist equipment and insurance, and they only work on the outside and periphery of your home. Yes, I recognise that cleaners are employed in offices I use, cafes I eat in and so on, but it's not really the same either. Most commerical cleaners are employed as staff and so get holiday pay, sick pay, NI etc. Agency workers don't have it so good, and I disagree with the terms of their employment too. But domestic cleaners are often paid cash in hand because employers think they are doing them a favour. But they have no holiday, sick pay - what happens if they have an accident in the house they are cleaning in. I know there are some well organised small cleaning companies, but I think they are the exception.

But most of all, I just feel like my friend is just being lazy or thinks she's too good to pick up after herself. If you are elderly or disabled or immobile, then I see nothing wrong with getting the help that you need. Likewise, if you have a busy family, and don't want to be stuck being the person who picks up after everyone else - get the help you need and show the family how much your time costs. But if you have a quiet life and are fit and healthy, I don't see why you think it's ok to have someone over to clean your toilet. I also think that people who say they are so impossibly busy with work that they can't lift a duster once a week really ought to think about cutting back their ft hours, and give others access to the surplus of work they have.

I'm not going to have a go at my friend. But I just don't think it's right.

OP posts:
Portofino · 29/04/2013 19:20

Meant to add, and it discourages cash in hand arrangements (illegal) so at the end of the day, more people employed, more people paying tax.

fluffymindy · 29/04/2013 19:21

I have a lovely cleaner who I treat like royalty - she comes three times a week for a total of 10 hours and I pay her cash in hand. I have a lot of kids and it frees me up to do nicer things.

I used to have a cleaning job, lots of them in fact and saving my cash in hand money up enabled me to buy some buy to let properties which now give me a spanking income for doing relatively fuck all.... I have a degree and I never though of it as low status... I was a single Mum and it was the only thing I could feasibly do that paid enough money and fitted in with my life as I had no family support. Cleaning is as good a job as any and mainly defined by how nice the people are that you clean for. In that sense I have been very fortunate with the people I have worked for and I treat my lovely housekeeper like glass. She is good hearted and helps me make my life happier and more sorted. She is a gem and not at all low status in my eyes - she is indispensable as far as my family are concerned.

This OP says so much more about the person you are rather than the person you are complaining about. YABU

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 19:21

Part time jobs that take into account school hours and people who have children, who after all will one day become consumers, taxpayers in their own right, should be the norm. Why should, lets face it, a woman's options on returning to work be limited to this kind of work. There is NO equality in that and are you seriously suggesting that all people carrying out domestic cleaning jobs have had educational opportunities afforded to them at a young age and were living in great economic circumstances that allowed them to choose the career of 'cleaning' rather than being pushed into it due to economic necessity. Bollocks!

Kerryblue · 29/04/2013 19:25

YABU with regards to your reasoning for having a cleaner ie she should do it all herself because she has the time etc. If she wants a cleaner, then she should have a cleaner - that is her business and hers alone.

I have a cleaner starting next Monday (God I can't wait!!). But then I have 4 dc, live on a farm, have 2 holiday cottages to run and my dh works long hours oh, and am a part time midwife too - so that is probably OK in your eyes!! But surely, anyone who wants a cleaner should have a cleaner no matter what their job, circumstances or number of dc.

However......... I do think YANBU with regard to the amount of stuff the cleaner does, twice a week. That, to me, is slightly over the top and a bit unnecessary but even so, if that's what she wants, then she is paying for it, so that's what she gets! And who gives a toss!

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 19:26

But ultimately she is not 'indispensable' though is she, if you could no longer afford her she goes! I can't stand this romanticising of the cleaner/employer dynamic, she is not your best buddy, you are her employer, that can't be arsed to do the drudgery, if she was no good you can hold her accountable for that and sack her, you can't do that with your 'gem' of a friend!

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo · 29/04/2013 19:27

"saving my cash in hand money up enabled me to buy some buy to let properties"

did you declare that income?

Ruralninja · 29/04/2013 19:31

People get awfully confused about cleaners don't they? Is it because they are mostly women? Does the OP have similar objections to window-cleaners (mostly male)?

So much guff talked about cleaning - there's nothing noble about doing all your own cleaning, it doesn't make you a better person or anything, sorry!

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 29/04/2013 19:37

Bloody hell Kerryblue, when do you have time to breathe. Grin

fluffymindy · 29/04/2013 19:38

None of your business is it? Of course I do and seriously unless DH lost his job, she is going nowhere. I have an obligation to her and I honour it. For instance, she was not here today, she is poorly and I will still pay her for the whole week seeing as she has 'our' cold anyway. And I can easily afford her and why should I do it all if I can have the time with my family. It works for her and it works for me. It is OK to not be arsed with your own drudgery if you can afford to pay someone else to do it and you treat them well. I have been there myself and I was treated extremely well by lovely people, it is possible to do the right thing by people.

Cloverer · 29/04/2013 19:39

I don't really understand why cleaning is so awful but childcare is ok.

I have a babysitter 3 hours a week and a cleaner 3 hours a week. Guess who gets paid more?

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 29/04/2013 19:40

I would rather clean than look after kids tbh Smile

Madamecastafiore · 29/04/2013 19:40

I pay someone to walk the dog, clean the house, clean the car, deliver my shopping, wash and clean the dogs glands and occasionally to do my ironing and as long as I can afford it it is feck all to do with anyone else as your friends situation is feck all to do with you!!!

fluffymindy · 29/04/2013 19:41

I have to say on a responsibility thing I would not employ someone for so many hours thus providing a fair bit of income for them without being sure I could continue that.

I have a couple of disabled children to care for, and five in total, does that make it for you now that I have someone to help me with the stuff I cannot be arsed with? Charming attitude.

Fakebook · 29/04/2013 19:45

I don't care. Her house sounds amazingly clean. I want to live there.

McNewPants2013 · 29/04/2013 19:46

I wish i had the money to have a cleaner.

daftdame · 29/04/2013 19:47

I cut my hair (sometimes badly Blush) does that make me better than you, OP? Bet you probably pay for some fancy hairdo! Hmm

Where will all this inverted snobbery end....

Still18atheart · 29/04/2013 19:48

I'm a student and I have cleaner.

OK so she doesn't do my room but she does do the kitchen, the corridor, lift and the walkways to the flats and the porch. It comes out of my rent and even if there was the option to opt out I wouldn't.

My mum also has cleaner. She works less days than she has off. But she has a life on those days, which is something I think the op should get. Instead of poking her nose into places it just shouldn't be

WTFisABooyhooISBooyhoo · 29/04/2013 19:49

"None of your business is it? Of course I do "

was this in response to my question wrt declaring that income? i asked because you called it cash in hand which usually means no tax or NI paid. i.e undeclared income.

flowery · 29/04/2013 19:50

"Employing a cleaner when you are perfectly capable of cleaning up your own crap, perpetuates and affirms inequalities that already exist in our society."

I could technically make my own burger from scratch, including baking the bread, putting together the burger, etc. If I decide to go and buy one from McDonalds instead, am I perpetuating and affirming inequalities then? Or am I contributing to the economy, keeping people in employment and paying tax?

What a load of nonsense. There are not that many jobs around at the moment, so anyone who employs someone to do something, as long as they treat the person fairly, has to be doing something right, surely?

Tortington · 29/04/2013 19:51

i have a cleaner - proper company, lovely bloke with insurances etc.

he does one hour a week, best fucking tenner i spend a week i tell ya.

I can catagorically tell you that i am not taking advantage of my cleaner, who, by running his business so well and by being so fantastic, has taken on staff, and takes two rather luxurious holidays a year ( that i know of)

Andro · 29/04/2013 19:51

YANBU to have a private opinion on ANYTHING (however agreeable or otherwise), you would be VVVVU to voice it - which you have already said you would never do. I really don't see the problem.

Ariel21 · 29/04/2013 19:52

Wowsers. I would give my right elbow to be able to afford a cleaner. I hope that when I earn more, I will be able to have one. It's good, honest work (and skilled, actually) and better paid then many other jobs (including my own!)

Whether you do things yourself or pay others to do them, depends on what you have more of; money or time. If you want to pay to give yourself more time, and can afford it, then good for you.

Would you pay for a car wash? A ready prepared meal? A manicure? A carpet fitter?

flowery · 29/04/2013 19:54

Presumably I'm perpetuating and affirming inequalities by employing a nanny as well, instead of giving up work and looking after my DC myself, while polishing my halo and slitting my wrists simultaneously?

WilsonFrickett · 29/04/2013 19:55

I too would rather clean than mind children. And if things ever went completely tits up, I'd clean rather than do most other MW jobs. Feck bar work, factory work, agricultural work.

Goldenbear · 29/04/2013 19:59

Fluffy, the 'none of your business' argument is not an argument to me as I'm not talking about particular individuals, my point is at a broader level and I was quite clear about what that argument was- it is definitely not concerned with how 'nice' you are to your cleaner.

Swipe left for the next trending thread