...to still be sooooo angry at the UNFAIR way the Government has decided who does and doesn't get Child Benefit!

[candyandyoga]

I know it's done and dusted but I'm so fucking annoyed. How can they get away with their bonkers policy that if two people in a relationship earn just under the threshold they keep their CB but if one person earns over the threshold they lose it!?!

[morethanpotatoprints]

crashdoll.

If you knew my family over the past 20 years, you'd have said we needed both parents to work, we are talking well skint. Have even managed to pay off mortgage at 40 so no I don't see how 2 parents NEED to work. I can see how the choices people make in life could make it necessary for both parents to work.

[crashdoll]

morethan

The patronising makes you look silly. Good for you that you worked out it, not everyone can manage that. You sounds very closed minded and self-congratulatory.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I agree morethan, I was talking to a mother at a toddler group the other day and she was sad that she had to go back to work. She asked me what I did and I told her I was a SAHM. She told me I was lucky to have the choice. However, in previous chats with her, she talks about her lovely executive 5 bed detached home which is their dream house. She had also told me that she is off to Australia again this year. We, however, live in a small rented house, which is a bit tatty and down at heal. We don't do anything extravagant really. Yes, it was our choice, but by the same token, what she's doing is her choice.

[crashdoll]

Some people really do not have a choice. I don't know why that is so hard for a few of you on this thread to understand.

[sweetkitty]

Couldn't agree more ihategeorgeosbourne have had the same conversation many times.

Sometimes I feel like saying "why don't you sell your 5 bed house, give up the BMW and the Audi, give up the holidays and move into a small rented house, then you can be a SAHM but I don't because it's a bit rude"

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I understand that crashdoll. I really do know that some families don't have a choice. That doesn't mean that there aren't families where both parents work who do it purely to have the finer trappings in life. Again, that is up to them. I have friends come to my house sometimes (I'm a bit ashamed of it actually sometimes) and I can see them looking incredulously that anyone could possible want to live in a house so small and dated, especially a family of 5. The fact is, the rent is reasonable for the area and we couldn't afford to buy an equivalent house in a million years unless we took on some seriously irresponsible borrowing.

[MmeThenardier]

YANBU.

This ^

Is it fair that people have lost their cb when people who have more money than they do get to keep it? No.

Another ill thought out policy.

[seesensepeople]

But surely this is NOT about the choices people make, rather the political decisions the government make?

We all make different choices because we are at different places in our lives and each choice is unique to us and equally valid.

The key point here is that there is no real means testing, just a lazy line in the sand - does one member of the household pay HRT? If Yes, start to lose CB.

That is why it is so contentious, because it IS patently unfair.

And I agree with SweetKitty's point about divide and conquer - if we stopped squabbling amongst ourselves about the fact that we have made different choices then we would have a more coherent voice.

I'm not sure who it was but someone made the excellent point that if this is what the Tories can achieve in a coalition, how dangerous would they be if they won a majority?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Agree Sovery

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Agree also seesense

[ihategeorgeosborne]

seesense, I don't think they've got much chance of winning a majority in 2015. This is why they're trying to be as vile as they can now aided by the useless lib dems of course.

[sweetkitty]

The scary thing is there is no real opposition to them, a real opposition would be pulling them up at every turn, highlighting the ill though out and unfair policies, challenging them to defend them.

[Savannahgirl]

Ultimately I think that the relatively few families (200,000?) who are affected by the loss of CB are really just collateral damage in an exercise by the coalition to try and show those being hit by other welfare cuts that "we (including the wealthy) are all in this together". The fact that earners on £150K are being given a real terms tax cut and other very well paid people are able to avoid large chunks of tax is artfully sidestepped by George Osborne & co.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

The thing is sweetkitty, they've been very cunning in the way they have pushed these cuts through. For example, CB cuts only affect the top 10% of households. We all now that this is blatantly untrue. A dual income family on 100k is considerably wealthier than a dual income household on on 70k, split 60k and 10k. Another classic is it is not right that working families see families where no one works doing better on benefits. Again, many families out of work don't want to be and are in the situation through illness, redundancy, etc. Another classic is we will look after the genuinely disabled, and then you hear that many seriously ill patients have died because they've had their benefits cuts. They are trying to make the stigmatised group feel rubbish and not worthy. It really does seem to be working sadly Oh, and don't get me started on landlords pocketing huge sums in housing benefit.

[seesensepeople]

Well, this was my first ever thread on AIBU and it has been fascinating.

There have been some lovely people on here (thanks for the condolences) and some slightly emotional rants.

All in all, I would say that I wouldn't be unhappy to have a chat over a glass of vino with SweetKitty, IhateGeorgeosborne and Savannahgirl - some interesting points of view, not sure we will agree with each other but we might just listen.

Some other interesting contributions, too - i am quite looking forward to being part of this forum!

[morethanpotatoprints]

Crashdoll

I can assure you I don't feel at all how you suggest, but it is hard to get the tone sometimes on these threads.
The point I was making we all determine how we want to live from the choices we make in life. I maintain it is possible for any family to live on min wage with or without top ups. Its down to the choices you make.
We could have made choices that meant we both had to work but we didn't because it was important to us to have a sahp. We had a baby, nowhere to live, no money, oh and no income. After a year we had a deposit for a mortgage which was equivalent to todays deposit, as dh was self employed without 3 years books. I was merely pointing out it was possible.
I'm not suggesting that our choices were any better, or anybody elses were its personal to each family.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

seesensepeople, that's a lovely thing to say. I have a bottle of red open. Come and join me and anyone else who fancies it. Not much room in my small house though

[Savannahgirl]

Thanks seesense any time you want to share a bottle of and put our wonky world to rights....lets join george in her teeny house

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Yeeeey, party on girls. Let's do it

[seesensepeople]

[Savannahgirl]

BTW seesense as pissed off as I am about the whole CB issue I still have my DH so my frustration pales into insignificance when I think about what you have gone through and live with every day.You have my utmost admiration. Stay strong

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Morethan, you have said before you claim WTC, CTC and CB so if its possible to live on just one persons salary of min wage why do you need all those?

Its not about SAHM vs WOHM, the debate was whether CB changes were fair. They are not and one of the few Tory policies I disagree with even though not affected. It should have remained universal, limited to one child or scrapped altogether. Penalising those who earn more is wrong, we want our children to aim high not ensure they earn the minimum and rely on benefits for the rest.

[Savannahgirl]

Only one seesense ? Methinks required here!

[ihategeorgeosborne]

seesense ditto from me. I really know I have nothing to complain about in comparison. You sound lovely BTW x