to think cars should be banned from towns and cities

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I don't own a car, mainly because I am too poor but also because I don't really need one and get around from A-B either on foot (short distances), cycling (medium distances), or bus/train (long distance). I am not a lentil-weaving hippy by any means but I really dislike the way that the dominance of the car has influenced our towns and cities - children can't play out, we are always waiting at junctions and traffic lights, running and walking necessitate several lengthy pauses to cross busy roads etc etc.

Why can't we create some kind of system whereby cars must be left on the outskirts of a city and everyone wanting to move around inside it has to walk/cycle/use the bus? I know this is hugely unrealistic and expensive but the impact this would have on our daily lives would be immense. The general environment would be so much more pleasant, we'd be to roam (ok, maybe I am a bit lentil weaver )

I know some people are disabled etc and allowances could be made for that but the vast majority of car journeys within a city (I think) could be avoided if people gave themselves more time to get to where they were going.

I'd love to live in a town town with no traffic, to cycle along with no cars and not have to fight dangerous junctions as a pedestrian.

Teacher - so why do you think Vinegar can manage it and you can't? What are the differences between your lives? Do you think yours is more busy? Without knowing either of you I suspect it's because Vinegar is prepared to make sacrifices that you are not.

It is about wanting to, it's about you wanting everyone to make the same choices as you when everyone has different lives and different circumstances.

You seem to be sure that nobody needs to drive in a city centre or town centre which is frankly bollocks!

No, not that "nobody" needs to drive - sure, some people do, some of the time but not as many that think they need to drive now.

yeah, that will work well for a 2 hour cycle in the pouring rain with a newborn baby, and twisty narrow roads with no cycle paths.
The netherlands is mostly flat and set up for cycling.......

Bugger off, I'm keeping my car.

But you are trying to decide for other people which journeys they need to make - what makes you think your way of wanting things is right? You have a very high and mighty attitude.

Kobayashi - you do realise this thread is about towns and cities right?

Cycling everywhere was fine in the Netherlands, it is flat, really, really flat. Not a bit flat, but table flat.

However, shopping was hard work with two DCs still in nappies. Every other shop was a nappy shop. DH alternated food shopping and nappy shopping and shopping every day. Shopping for 5 is no lightweight matter on a pushbike with two DCs on board.

We sobbed with gratitude when we were able to get a car.

I think I am right because no one can possibly argue that having more cars on the road is a good and pleasant thing and that fewer cars would be a horrible, dreadful way to live.

teacher - how is my mindset fixed? I've done living with a car, and living without a car. I am just giving my examples of how it can work to be car-free despite kids, commuting etc etc. I don't really care what other individual people do, but I do care about the ever increasing number of cars on the road and people's ostrich approach to it.

One thing that's only been skirted round is getting stuff delivered. There seems to be an idea that if you order stuff on line and get it sent to you, you've magically cut out vehicle use. But instead you've just transferred the vehicle use to the retailer.

I've been driving round the suburbs and villages round here daily for nine years, collecting up dogs for their walks and taking them home again, and the numbers of delivery vans for supermarkets and parcel deliveries has increased many times fold. From the point of view of other road users, they're a massive PITA; although most drivers are courteous, they are often delivering on narrow streets and are as bad as getting stuck behind the bin lorry, and some companies have them on such a tight schedule (Tesco and DPD are definitely guilty) that they are forced to drive like loons, and I've seen them consulting hand-held computers while driving. I had to jump off a zebra crossing out of a Tesco van's path, he wasn't looking at the road, he was typing something into a tablet!

Actually, it is about not wanting to but needing to.

I don't want to have to use my car. I manage well without it in London because the infrastructure and facilities are there.

In Yorkshire I need to, because they aren't. I, personally, couldn't cycle, even if I wanted to, because of two prolapsed discs in my back, and I can't walk the 3 miles to town. Neither could I carry anything heavier than my handbag.

You choose to do what you do because you can. I don't have the luxury of being able to make that choice. That's not an excuse, it's how it is.

Sirzy - the fact you choose to drive impacts on me and my children in myriad ways. It is not value neutral.

Downton so you do not live in a town, then, in which case this wouldn't apply. Or if you do it is one with no/inadequate public transport?

Vinegar said up thread that she lives in London. You cannot compare local transport like with like where I live (not a million miles from London in a market town). My job is 20 miles away down backstreets and I have to be at work for 7.45am having already dropped ds off at child care. Dh works all manner of shifts so cannot be relied on to take ds to childminders every day so I have to be able to.
I. Couldn't. Get. To. Work. Without. My. Car.

I don't use my car for short unnecessary journeys. Petrol is expensive and we pay a Shedload of tax every journey. I pay insurance. All you cyclists, are you insured if you hit a pedestrian?

My choice to drive means I can do my voluntary work which makes a massive positive impact on hundreds on young people.

My choice to drive means I can get DS to hospital in 10 minutes when he has an asthma attack which has a positive effect on his health and means we don't need to call an ambulance.

My choice to drive means we can travel to a whole host of places with ease for days out and holiday and support the economies in those places.

I would use public transport if I lived in a location which had a halfway decent public transport system.

I walk when that is a possibility, I am not going to be dictated to about when I can drive or what benefits someone else feels that has. If you choose not to drive fine but don't judge others for making a perfectly legal decision as to how they want to live their life.

Downtown - I accept you can't walk/cycle, that's fine. If driving is genuinely easier, drive. But for every person in your position there are many, many more (like my aforementioned colleague) who simply DO NOT need to drive and shouldn't do. This is the point of the thread.

Betty - true, and in fact I can't remember the last time we did get something delivered tbh, but even so one vehicle delivering many, many products is still much more efficient than multiple cars, both in terms of traffic and environmental impact.

" I would use public transport if I lived in a location which had a halfway decent public transport system."

This is the crux of it, and I don't think anyone on this thread would say car use should be penalised until this is put in place.

We could not live car free if I lived in a place with crap public transport. Yes we cycle 95% of journeys but decent public transport is an essential back up.

perhaps you could explain to me how my son and I are suppossed to get to his football fixture tomorrow which is 15 miles away down hilly roads with no public transport?

would you be prepared to cycle 10 miles to work down narrow country lanes at 5am, and do a 10 hour day and cycle back? And thats the nearest job.....the others involved a 90 min car journey.

inconvenience is not really the word.

though i do agree there should be less cars in towns.....so i can drive mine more quickly.

Did anyone actually read the thread title? This is about towns and cities people.

(FWIW I currently cycle 6 miles to work, work 13 hour shifts then cycle home. I am 30 weeks pregnant. I don't think everyone else could or should do the same, but it certainly isn't impossible or even especially onerous tbh.)

Well I do live in a town. In Yorkshire. And have lived in this town for my whole life. It is actually a conurbation of small villages with a "town centre."

At the moment I am spending weekdays in London for a short period. I am amazed at the transport system, the ease of use, and how much money I save as opposed to running a car. My DD travels anywhere for free. It's fantastic.

My town, at home, just does not have this travel infrastructure. To get a bus to/from the centre is more expensive than a taxi if there are two of you. On top of that, buses aren't direct and taking a bus from my home to somewhere across town, meaning two or three buses could take four hours, bearing their infrequency, and maybe £20 if two of us. There are no trains nearby, either walking distance or on bus routes, except in the town centre.

Oh dear, on top of this it's a 4x4. Never mind that we were the only ones to get trough the roads with snow drifts higher than the car this winter. At least I'm greener the other 5 days a week.

As long as you're not a person who doesn't have a car for principled reasons and then cadges lifts off people-that really does piss me off something chronic!

Fwiw I do agree that many town centres would benefit from improved infrastructure and regeneration, as traffic is ugly and polluting in cities. HOWEVER, until alternatives exist, I'm not going to even consider changing the way I get myself from A to B. When we lived in London my car would sit unused for a fortnight as I did everything on public transport. Here, it's impossible.

I live in a town though as do many people. Doesn't change the fact that the idea of the op is completly unworkable

The OP didn't say people who live in towns or cities shouldn't drive cars, though. She said people shouldn't drive cars in the centre of towns or cities. So all these posts about country lanes and 15 mile drives to the next town to work/volunteer etc are totally irrelevant to the OP.

I ordered 2 things online for delivery. They were delivered yesterday, when I was out. They're now at the sorting office, which is in the town centre. I can just about get there before closing after work if I drive. If I don't drive, it is physically impossible to get there. I can't rearrange delivery as there's every chance again that I won't be in.

I think it's great that you don't want to drive. I like people being able to exercise their freedom to make their own decisions. But I don't want mine taken away.

Also, there is no little high street where I live. If I want to go to the butchers, bakers etc I need to go into town.