to think cars should be banned from towns and cities

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I don't own a car, mainly because I am too poor but also because I don't really need one and get around from A-B either on foot (short distances), cycling (medium distances), or bus/train (long distance). I am not a lentil-weaving hippy by any means but I really dislike the way that the dominance of the car has influenced our towns and cities - children can't play out, we are always waiting at junctions and traffic lights, running and walking necessitate several lengthy pauses to cross busy roads etc etc.

Why can't we create some kind of system whereby cars must be left on the outskirts of a city and everyone wanting to move around inside it has to walk/cycle/use the bus? I know this is hugely unrealistic and expensive but the impact this would have on our daily lives would be immense. The general environment would be so much more pleasant, we'd be to roam (ok, maybe I am a bit lentil weaver )

I know some people are disabled etc and allowances could be made for that but the vast majority of car journeys within a city (I think) could be avoided if people gave themselves more time to get to where they were going.

I'd love to live in a town town with no traffic, to cycle along with no cars and not have to fight dangerous junctions as a pedestrian.

Also, regardless of how regular or cheap public transport was, it would still be more inconvenient for me to use.

If I was driving my car and pulled in every half mile or so the journey would take longer. And that's without taking into account the fact that I get in my car and drive straight where I need to go. A bus or train will always serve a large customer base, so the journeys are mapped in a way to be most convenient to the majority, as well as being cost effective.

Who has time to walk everywhere or hang about for public transport that may or may not be on time and may or may not be full (if everyone was forced to use it, you'd end up seeing full buses go past you!) and when you finally got one, it would take an hour to do a 20 minute journey. It would take hours to do anything!

'Why can't we create some kind of system whereby cars must be left on the outskirts of a city and everyone wanting to move around inside it has to walk/cycle/use the bus? '

we have these already, they are called shopping malls though you can't usually use the bus in the mall granted

more shopping malls!!!

Last time I had to get public transport to work it took 1hr and 50 mins and cost something ridiculous like £9. It's a 20 min drive. I live in a largish market town and work in my closest city.

I hate hate hate hate hate public transport with a passion. I hate having to wait around for buses/trains, I hate not being able to get to my exact destination, I hate having to cart my stuff around and not be able to control the environment that I'm in. Too hot? Air con on, too cold? Whack up the car heating. You don't have to listen to other people's music etc etc.

I can afford to run my car and it is my choice. I have a car that is in the lowest car tax/emissions bracket, and I do not drive it unnecessarily. There is no public transport from where I live to my work, it would quite simply be impossible to get there without my car. That said I am quite happy to walk a long way to do things, and would never drive into town unless I had heavy shopping to bring back.

I volunteer at a Foodbank in the next town. It takes me fifteen minutes to drive there. It would take me about an hour and a bit to walk each way. Despite it only being 5 miles away I would have to take 3 buses. Frankly it's now looking like too much hassle for a couple of hours volunteering a week. I'm sure that's a fairly common experience.

You can't even think about banning cars until public transport is cheaper and more convenient.

That's taking aside the fact I don't actually want the government/smug fuckers further restricting what I choose to do with my life.

My oh works for a car company - what about his job ?

Think about the revenue and the potential unemployment from the whole car industry - design/engineering the new car, assembly, sales , petrol stations, repair garages , car park attendants etc etc

I still think some people are just lazy fuckers.

Undoubtedly true.
I wish your idea could come come true, OP.

I would like all shopping centres beyond a certain size to charge for parking (min. rate). I have a feeling that city centre shopping would have a massive resurgence.

I think cyclists should be banned. Not just from cities and towns. Just generally.
I don't want to be forced to crawl along at 15 miles per hour on a 60 mile per hour road watching their bottoms wriggle unattractively in Lycra.

the impact of not using a car would be immense....kids wouldn't be able to do competitive football as there would be no away matches; i'd have to stay away overnight for business trips; no more camping holidays; husband would be jobless so we would have to move house.

we live in a town centre, so you are suggesting we park at the edge and walk through the dark and rain to our house? Great. Sounds like heaven.

you sound like you must have loads of time to waste, unfortunately not everyone else does

My colleague, for instance, drives the 1 mile to work every day and pays £40 a month to park her car at work

Well she sounds like a lazy fucker with more money than sense

We are making a start with pedestrianised zones, Trafalgar Square's new design, Queensgate and Boris Bikes in London have made a big difference.

But London can implement such schemes bacause it already has a good public transport network in place. Try looking beyond our capital and it is not the same elsewhere. It would be totally impractical to start digging huge great tunnels under our cities to create an underground system.

Come and live in the wee village I live in. We have 3 pubs, 2 shops, a chippy, an Indian restaurant, a Chinese restaurant and 23563 hairdressers.
We are 6 miles from closest town, buses stop at 4pm, none at all on Sundays.
What should I do when I work evenings in said 6 mile away town? There is no path to there and the road is a twisty country 60mph road which is not lit.
Our car is essential!

How am I meant to cycle with four small children and some shopping?
Sanctimonious twattery.

I've read all your reasons/excuses why you need a car, some of them are valid, some not. I think many boil down to not wanting to inconvenience yourselves. That's your choice, but is the reason why we live in a world that relies so heavily on the car - simply because people can't be bothered for it to take longer for them to get around, they can't be bothered to carry shopping etc which is what people did in the past (and what many people without a car do perfectly fine today). You can dress it up all you like with "but how would I do XYZ without a car" or "it would take me XXX to do a 20 minute journey" - it still amounts to the fact you can't be bothered.

I'm not being sanctimonious, at least not intentionally, I don't think you are all twats for driving, it's perfectly normal to seek out the path of least resistance. The point of my post is that cities and towns would be far better off without cars, or at least with fewer of them, and quite frankly we can't keep going at the rate we are. Improving that requires a certain element of sacrifice on all our behalves.

Obviously you don't live in a small village in Yorkshire where everything is up/down a lot of very big hills. Cycling is for the seriously fit (the tour de France will come through here.)

Public transport is poor, expensive and inconvenient.

On the other hand, I live in London during the week, where it's mostly flat and the public transport is fantastic. I don't need a car there. But the number 1 hazard as a pedestrian, IME, is cyclists! Who seem to believe that traffic regulations do not apply to them, don't stop at red lights and who come flying through, usually along side a stationary bus so I can't see them, just as I am crossing with the green man. Never mind the cutting corners or even swerving onto pavements.

Disclaimer- not ALL cyclists, probably a small minority, I know many are considerate and that cyclists face their own issues with buses and taxi drivers etc.

Kobayashi that is exactly what the majority of families in the Netherlands do. Have a look at my link to the Bakfiets site upthread. Or look at Emily Finch for inspiration. bikeportland.org/2012/06/28/with-six-kids-and-no-car-this-mom-does-it-all-by-bike-73731

(I have one child, soon to be two. We are planning three minimum. We have no plans to get a car.)

As for those asking who has time to walk, cycle or take public transport, many of us manage just fine thanks. Both DH and I work, in busy jobs. I work shifts including nights and weekends. We also do various voluntary things in our "spare time" eg nursery committee. In other words we don't have much time to spare.

We both commute by bike, including the nursery drop off. It does not take significantly longer, In fact it often works out quicker than driving in London. It also stops us having to spend extra time going running/swimming/to the gym. It is easy to make assumptions that driving is always quicker when in towns and cities (the point of this thread) it often isn't.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can't be at present. But if everyone thought about how they could cut down their car usage, maybe run one rather than two or more cars, it would be hugely beneficial to the whole country.

I live in Calderdale actually, which is in Yorkshire and every hill out of the valley is getting on for 20%. I am not suggesting cars are banned from villages where there are no buses, but from major towns where people driving to them or living in them leave their cars in "ports" and use alternative methods of transport.

OP you're very very wrong. The world is a different place now than it was in the good ole days when we walked 20miles to get to school etc.

Local economies depend on the business generated by their town centres and high streets. Those are dying a death as it is. Making it even more difficult for people to access their town centres and high streets will drive people away altogether. Especially with the boom in out of town shopping facilities.

Aside from the above, our world has evolved and now a lot of us live in a deadline driven society. Time is precious, and it's very natural to want to maximise the things you can get done within a certain timeframe. Employment is far more fluid than ever before, in terms of people being able to commute to other towns for work. And that's before you taking into account people who have to travel as part of their job. And then aside from that, I think most people given a choice would far prefer to have a commute in the car of an hour and spend time with their families, than spend double that trudging around on multiple trains and buses that don't go exactly where they need to be. And probably in the rain.

And finally, drivers contribute an incredible amount of money to the government coiffers. Ever litre of petrol sold generates around 80p in combined duty and VAT. Parking costs in town centres generally go straight to local councils.

We shop locally precisely because we don't have a car! We don't use supermarkets or drive to big out of town shopping centres. Instead we do smaller regular shops, all in local independent shops and our local high street.

A lot of very fixed mindsets on this thread.

Who are you to decide who does and does not have valid reasons for driving or owning a car? Just because you make the choice not to have a car doesn't mean that everyone wants to live the same way as you.

It's not about "wanting" to live a certain way, it's about "needing" to. By that I mean changing the way we live in order to improve life for everyone - personal sacrifice for common gain. This is why we recycle, why we pay taxes, why we take the time to pick up our litter etc. Driving less and only when strictly necessary would hugely improve our general living environment for everyone.

Vinegar is right - there are a lot of people on this thread who are exceptionally stuck in their ways, churning out the same excuses. No, it's not up to me to decide who has valid reasons or not - that's my opinion, and one I am entitled to just as you are to yours.

Vinegar drinker-you also have a very set mindset! I shop locally, walking into town to go to the butchers etc, but when I need to buy washing powder, loo rolls and nappies I drive to tescos. As long as it is legal for me to drive the car that I pay for wherever and whenever I want to drive it, I will make those choices thank you very much. There is no way that I could do my job and get ds to child care without a car. Even if we moved house. We will be a 2 car family probably forever, and that is our choice.

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