Why don't they just accept that motorbikes are deathtraps and campaign against people riding them?

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Instead of spending so much time and money going on at car drivers, wouldn't it be better to discourage people from using motorbikes in the first place?

YABU. Car driver's complacency is a major cause of all road accidents. The safety campaigns encouraging drivers to look out for bikes are just that - reminding drivers to pay attention. So many of us just cruise along on autopilot.

I have had a few bikes in the past, and now I have DS I won't again - due to the risk from other road users.

But - there are two types of bikers; idiots and normal people. Same as in every other walk of life.

Because then they would take up as much space on the road as cars.

Would you really like all motorbikes and cycles to queue one behind each other like cars? Think of the traffic!*

(* as a cyclist I do actually do this if I predict I don't safely have time to get to the front. Tends to make drivers irate as they apparently think I should be cycling in the gutter)

Motorbikes are not dangerous just because of car drivers, although poor car/lorry driving is a huge factor. Motorbikes are an intrinsically dangerous means of transport, and significant numbers of people die in bike vs tree incidents with no other vehicle involved.

It's mostly only their own lives they're risking, which is why we accept the high risks involved and don't clamp down like we do for other road risks (although a friend of mine was killed on a pedestrian crossing by a motorbike).

Chunky - it's because there are risks to bike users that don't affect car drivers, like watching out for small patches of grit or oil, or not riding on road marking as they can cause you to slip.

Lady - Exactly!

So car drivers never crash into trees or stationary objects?

I think that car drivers should know those things though! I think they should be aware that if a bike is going around a corner that they might adjust their position to avoid a drain cover etc.

I took both tests due to various stupidities with the order I learned to drive/took tests to drive vehicles, and I don't remember any of the questions being about that - they were about things like road positioning, what to look out for - and I seem to remember having to answer questions in the bike on about seatbelt safety...

I don't know Chunky, in a helmet you don't know whether they are male or female/young or old so it kind of makes them more anonymous. It is definitely the helmet-hence them having to be taken off in banks/petrol stations. (I was working in a bank when it got raided and they were wearing mirrored sunglasses so maybe that's relevant I don't know)

The instance I was thinking of was two lanes of traffic at lights. One lane going right, one straight on. Motorbike goes straight down the middle between the two queues and positions himself between the front two cars.

Bikers are mostly polite, well riding souls actually. You always get a thumbs up around here if you pull closer into the curb so they can overtake.

Think on this - About 3 weeks ago two police cars were having a race up a duel carriageway overtaking and undertaking each other - no blue lights flashing - and went around the roundabout 4 times before gunning off up the next duel carriageway and at the end of that one, they both cut up the cars queuing there so they could get onto the M4 and carry on...
One rule for some...

Bikers who are responsible riders? Nothing wrong with them. There are very bad car drivers out there - see the above!

Nothing more poignant than seeing a whole lot of bikers show up for a bikers funeral - one chap died here (natural causes) and all the bikers turned out for the funeral and followed the hearse down the road - honestly, it was just an amazing sight...

Oh I know! It's because motorbikes are some people's version of fun! Yes! Fun!

I ride mine safer in the knowledge that no 4 or more wheeled drivers have any knowledge I'm there and will probably kill me.

We filter because we can. Don't have to be stuck in the traffic at all. And do you know that people deliberately block us in because they're pissed off we can do it and they can't.

Yes I'll go to the front of a queue because it is safer. Yes, I'll overtake because it can be safer.

Ill also stick to the speed limits.

There are shit bikers and shit drivers.

You only think we're going fast sometimes because we're loud and small.

I have 3 beautiful children so look out for me :)

Wannabe - but the car will protect you far more than a motorbike will and thus your chances of injury or death are lower. This is fairly obvious.

Well, I'm doing my bit by brainwashing my DC to believe motorbikes are the work of the devil.

I tried it with sweets, and ended up with one DC who will never eat the things, and another who can't get enough.

I do think the way some people ride motorbikes is very unfair on car drivers. They may be risking their own lives, but what about the car driver involved in the accident?

You know even less if someone's wearing a burka... I find you can make a pretty good guess at at least the sex of someone if they're in leathers!

Bikers do that because getting out in front is always safer. If the biker was going right they'd likely actually have positioned themselves in front of the right hand lane car, or slot in behind the first car. A bike can generally get off the line faster than a car because they are light. It's in the highway code that bikes can do that (if safe) so it's not like it should be a shock to anyone when they do.

Seems the drivers are terrified of what the bikers are going to do and vice versa.

I do think there should be a minimum age for passengers on motorbikes - currently the only guidelines are that they can wear a hhelmet, put their feet on bit sticking out (can't remember name) and take instructions from the rider - have seen v young passengers on motorcycles and feel it really isn't safe.

*I honestly do feel that way. If we live in a free society, then we should be free to die in a way of our own choosing.

I also feel that way about car seats. I have no problem with them being available. I have a problem with them being the law. It's infantilising the human race to make laws about how we have to keep ourselves safe. Give us the information and the product, let us decide for ourselves.

Isn't it my job to protect my baby? Why does the government get to decide the best way to protect my baby?*

Jesus Christ are you for real? Because not every woman that is able to spread her legs should then get to play god with that child's life it is their life not yours, they aren't your property to do with as you wish Ffs

Not using a car seat is just pure stupidity and selfishness.

So we should all surround ourselves with metal shells to protect ourselves? Or we could strive to look out for each other and behave like decent human beings, perhaps?

My in laws live in the lake district. The bikers round there take ridiculous chances. They treat the roads like a racetrack with no thought for other road users. I remember us coming round a blind bend, a bus was on the other side of the road.

Then we saw a guy in a motorbike overtaking the bus on the blind bend. We just missed him only to find another idiot on a motorbike overtaking the bus behind him. We ended up in the ditch to avoid him. How he didn't end up on the front of our bonnet I really don't know. Fucking idiots, neither of them stopped.

I really hope they both got such a shock that they never did anything do stupid again. It gave us such a shock I thought DH was having a heart attack.

They do wanna, but a) the accidents are far more survivable for obvious reasons and b) it's much easier to lose control of a bike, either due to sub-optimal road surfaces or simply from overdoing the speed.

Gwynedd police did an eye opening campaign a while ago trying to get their biker deaths down, and far too many deaths happened on beautiful Sunday afternoons with perfect weather and visibility, and no other vehicles in sight.

However I would never deny that badly driven lorries aren't a serious hazard to all and sundry, and motorbike/cycle commuting has a big role to play in reducing congestion and pollution.

A burka? Don't know where you are going with that Chunky.

Have no idea where the biker in question was going-no indication so assume straight on.

Anyway, I will continue to look out for bikes as the huge yellow signs on the dual carriageway tell me to, and give them a wide berth and expect the unexpected.

Filtering is perfectly legal, acceptable and actually strongly encouraged by cycling trainers. I assume it's the same for motorbikes. If it pisses you off that they are jumping the queue then get a bike

gosh I'm fully aware of that but cars do also crash into stationary objects and the drivers do injure themselves seriously injure themselves

I used to work in insurance and non British national drivers had a high incident rate of crashing by not following roundabout etiquette correctly at least 3 claims in a small office per week. Would I ever suggest non British nationals should not be allowed to taxi drive- would I hell

Why are drivers in the UK so ignorant about bikers? This thread is a case in point. I am so I'm not sure where to start.

What do car drivers have to fear from bikes anyway? Much much less than bikers have to fear from drivers.

And cyclists are even more vulnerable.

I think it should be mandatory for every car driver to do CBT (compulsory basic training for bikers) to make them at least a little more aware of the challenges and vulnerability of someone on 2 wheels.

Car drivers zooming about in their protective metal cages are often blissfully unaware of the lethality they wield. You don't get the same false sense of security on a bike.

Have my very first .

I've only been riding 4 years. I rarely break the speed limit (and much less than I do in my car) and am forever dodging idiot car drivers. Not all bikers 'race around'. I'm quite happy to potter!

Riding a bike has also made me a much better car driver.

sparklingBrook see link here.
www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/overview

also your quote 'I think there is something sinister about people in motorbike helmets. they are unrecognisable and faceless (for want of a better word). Should you include in that comment anyone whose face is covered, such as those who wear burkas? Because it's the covered face you're objecting to and not the method by which it is covered?
When I was thrown off my motorbike due to a speeding car driver (on my side of the road) forcing me over the parapet of a bridge and into the river below, my crash helmet saved my life when I hit the rocks. They are a safety feature, just as a seat belt in a car is.

Not all bikers are twats, or break the speed limit, and neither are car/lorry/van drivers etc. To make such a comment is simply an ill informed sweeping generalisation.

Oh, and how often do we see a biker on his mobile phone whilst riding?