to ask why helping your children financially is looked upon so disdainfully? (thread about THAT inheritance thread)

[EuroShopperEnergyDrink]

*(Now, I certainly don't agree with allowing the public purse to pick up the tab for your care bill as you chose to spend all of your money on buying your little darling a house- but I think that thread raised some really interesting points.)

(And I know we all hate threads about threads but IDC *

It seemed like an awful lot of people seemed to believe that helping your children out with deposits and even purchasing property was ultimately a terrible thing. There was one comparison to the North Korean dictatorship when it came to leaving behind some dolla dolla bill for DC and a recurring theme of 'teaching your children to stand on their own feet' is more valuable that any inheritance you give them.

Obviously I agree self-sufficiency should be instilled in all children, and from studying at a pretty elite university with public school types who simply didn't understand that I needed to work all hours to get through my BA (and my MA!), I have a disdain for people who have never had to work for anything.

But does giving your kids a deposit for a house or a wedding or being so generous to buy them a house cancel that hard-working trait out if it existed in the first place? I understand completely that not everyone is in a financial position to help their DC in such a huge way, but surely it's understandable if some people do?

Oh - and of course there are loads of jobs where people work damn bloody hard - but which happen not to pay much. This may be because that's the only sort of work available, it may be that an individual's skills lie in a poorly paid sector .... whatever, there just aren't freely available well paid jobs for everyone who's prepared to work hard. "Working hard" is NOT a guarantee of financial security and it shouldn't be assumed that if you're struggling financially, it means, by default that you haven't "worked hard" !

Absolutely, catsmother!

Thank god parents do help their kids! I wouldn't have a house, know how to drive or be able to leave work and go to uni.

But family is important too, without my older brothers and sisters I wouldnt have a car, and would have had to.spend a lot of money renovating my house. They are a free d.i.y team of carpenters, plasterers and decorators.

Light bulb moment, excuse me, just realised how lucky I am.
I must go call the family and tell them how much I love them.

For me everything I do is to better my ds' future life. Be that helping him develop, provide him with a loving and supportive home, buy him what he needs now or work as hard as I can to ensure I can give him as much of a financial boost as I possibly can when he is an adult. My parents have always worked hard and made sacrifices so that db and I are better off and I will do the same. And yes that means ensuring ds will have money for university/home or what ever it is he will need.
The reason I have started now (used some savings to buy but to let flat that will be paid off when he is 25) is because I can only imagine how expensive things will be when he's an adult (he's 3).

I agree that anyone saying negative things is just jealous

Because people are envious. Simples.

I agree with cloudsandtrees. DD will be financially secure at some point when she is older because she has the good fortune to be an only grandchild and has two uncles who adore her, both of whom have made her beneficiary. That doesn't mean we can't instill the work ethic in her. She wants a blow up swimming pool (£40) so I have said she can have one when she has saved up for it. So far this week, she has saved up £2 by helping with non-household chore jobs. She doesn't get paid for washing up or dusting or tidying, that's just part of being a family, but things like "helping" weed, recycling metal, or washing the car, earn her money towards the pool. She's 3.

I am extremely proud that the family is able to help her financially, because it's the hard work and dedication of my parents, who are fricking amazing, that has put us in the fortunate position we are today.

The problem with that thread is that, in a way, it confused inheritance with helping your children and mentioned care home fees. If she had just asked "how do you plan to help your children financially?" other posters may not have got so het up.

What the OP wanted to do was fine, if she could afford it, but had little to do with inheritance. I can't buy my children a house each, but I will give them something towards the deposit. Has absolutely nothing to do with either inheritance or avoiding care home fees.

I know the thread you mean and i think because of the way it was worded it got peoples backs up. It was asking how to ensure her daughter got everything. She wanted to avoid iht and care home fees if needed. It was the selfishness that got to people because her attitude meant other people picking up the tab.

I plan on helping mine out with deposits for first houses etc once they are in a position to afford, same with cars but see no point until they can afford to run one.

I wonder what the stress is - after all we generally hope our dc are going to be in their 50s/60s before they are faffing around with our estates?

I think the OP on the other thread made the mistake of linking gift giving to your DCs when they are in their 20s and you are in your 50s to care home costs when you are in your 70s/80s. Giving money when your DCs are younger (giving money so they don't leave uni with £50k debts, or paying for wedding or paying for deposit for a house), in my mind is better than waiting until your DCs are in their 50s to inherit... as long as you aren't going to die in the next 7 years then giving large financial gifts are fine.

But there's a big difference between giving some of your spare money to them when they are young and need the help for something particular (which as long as you don't die in the next 7 years means they won't have to pay inheritance tax on it) and deliberately signing over assets to avoid carehome fees, but not giving up the use of that asset. So signing over your house, but not moving out and it being their home, you still living in it. That's not about helping out your DCs - because the point you sign it over you don't actually improve their standard of living, it's just on the hope you'll get an inheritance. There was also a tone on that thread that seems really horrible about keeping control over the money, stopping exH/Ws of your DCs being able to take the house in a divorce (even if they get main custody of DGC), having trustees including yourself to ensure you or people who know your preferences have to be consulted before homes can be sold if your DC want to move etc.

Gifts should come string free in my opinion.

I'm struggling financially now, spending every spare penny on studying for my Financial Services Diploma so that some time in the next ten years I will have a career that will be paid well enough to be able to better my children's lives. I want to be able to help them out if I can with education, a car, a house deposit. I don't want them to struggle like I am in a shitty job, in unsuitable rented accommodation and with a car that regularly stops working.

Agree with Jacks - it was the way it was worded that was so provocative.
I don't see why it has to be one or the other, either. My intention is to continue to teach my children the value of money, the fact that working for this long = this amount of spending, The fact things are FAR more expensive on credit than if you save for them, etc.,etc.etc., and they certainly don't know there might be some money to help out with deposit on a first home, but, when the time comes, it is my hope that I can help them out with a deposit.

That OP's dd was 10 though - SO much can change, and then when she threw in the angle about care fees, that starts a whole other anger in a lot of people about "scrounging from the state" when you had the money to look after yourself but deliberately made sure it was gone by the time you needed to use it.
It was the wording that made it so 'in yer face'.

I read that thread yesterday and could not believe some of the posts (someone upthread has already mentioned NK comparison-bizarre). My parents brought me up to work and make my own way, they were piss poor anyway and could not have helped us financially but were always there for moral support etc. Met my DH, he had some savings, so had enough for a deposit to buy a house. It was back in the late eighties so interest rates were soaring. Couple of years later moved to a bigger house, interest rate then went up to 16%! We both had full time jobs, part time jobs and took in lodgers to keep that roof over our heads. Fast forward to 2 years ago- mortgage paid off! We worked bloody hard to get there, so we have earnt the right to do as we feel fit with our house and our money. We fully intend to help our 2 DC's out with deposits to get them on the hoising ladder, but we do instill the work ethic, they have to earn their pocket money.

I agree with other posters that there is an element of jealousy. As to care home fees not everyone ends up in a care home, we have paid a lot of tax over the years and no doubt our children will too.

I think the idea of an "inheritance" is outmoded these days. As others have said, the time your DC need help is in their 20s when you are (hopefully) hale and hearty. Many people these days are in their 50s and 60s when their parents die - hopefully a million miles away from needing an inheritance to set them up in life. That's why people talking about inheritances can come across as grabby and "I want to keep all of this in my family, me, me, me" etc.

Just a point about the idea upthread that Asian families pool money and save all together for the good of everyone. While that is true, to a certain extent, I know of two instances where those arrangements have broken down in a horrible way.

In one example, it was used as a way of trying to keep a DIL from having rights to a property eg. the three names on the deeds were the two PIL and their son, even though PIL, the son, his wife and their children were all living in one house.

In another, two siblings have not spoken for several years due to dispute about a property that was originally bought as a shared investment. This was back in the 1970s and the original verbal sharing agreement is lost in the mists of time. THis will probably have to be resolved throught the courts one day.

So, not always a good thing....

I am one of the 'lucky' ones - over the years have had help from my DPs for driving lessons, education, house deposit, wedding. But I have also inherited a massive work ethic, and none of these things would have been forthcoming if I had been frittering money away. Dd is only 6 months old but I've already set up an isa for her, with the intention to squirrel enough for her to go to university if she wants to, and not leave with too many debts. What other assistance we can provide will depend on our circumstances in the future.

DPs have always treated me and db equally but sil is pretty ungrateful and spends money like it's going out of fashion. They recently asked for help from DPs with school fees for their eldest. DM has turned them down, on the basis that it would be breaking into money they had set aside for care homes in later life, and if they offered it for one grandchild they would have to make the money available to all, which they cannot afford.

Personally I think it's human instinct to help the next generation however you can, but part of that duty is to teach them how to be responsible with money. Personally I feel incredibly grateful already for the assistance we have had and if dd needs to be state educated because we can't afford the fees then so be it - I don't want to see my parents struggle when they need te money most in the future.

I don't even think about inheritance. I'll be dead and gone.

However, purely by accident, we have managed to keep hold of our first property. We rent it out atm, any big bills,house deposit, university fees can be helped with the money from that. Fingers crossed we'll both still be alive to see all that through though!

May I ask something please? Why does inheritance tax exist? I know very little about it. I've read the gov website ehich answers the who/how much aspect but doesn't examine why it exists. Is it simply a way to grab money once someone dies?

I read that other thread. I sympathised with the desire to not have the state grab something that perhaps many believe its not entitled to, as taxes are paid over a lifetime. But do also agree with everyone that tying it to care home etc was rather ill thought out and provocative.

For my penneth, my parents brought me up to not xpect anything from them as its theirs during their life, I work for mine but they have helped at big junctures of my life. For example I'm the first in the family to go to Uni. I will also be the last. There's no way I can afford that with how labour devalued educatuon and now the condems charges. That makes me very sad. I was brought up to believe I could be anything, do anything, have hope. My children's futures feel more restrained. I'm hoping this is just the economy at present and the pendulum will swing back but right now it's bleaker than I ever have know . ( could be worse I guess though eh?)

Argh full of typos, sorry, bfing!!!

I agree with HollyBerryB that if you help your children you are helping the family. We have dished out big-time to our sons to enable them to buy and improve their houses and it has not stopped them working very hard and being amazed at those whose lack of a work ethic is only too apparent.

I will confess to feeling a twinge of jealousy when friends announce that they are buying a house because their parents have given them the deposit.

It's hard, neither mine nor DPs parents could afford to help us out. We work very hard but we are still paying of our university debts and the huge sums required for a deposit are a distant dream.

We will get there in time however, every bit of overtime or extra cash goes into the savings pot. I know my mum and dad would borrow money against their house to give us a deposit but its not something I would even consider, they have worked so hard and have paid they're mortgage off, they deserve to enjoy what the have now rather than get up to the eyeballs in debt so I can have a house.

I must admit I don't believe in inheritance tax. You've already worked for what you've got, paid for out of taxed income. Why the second tax?

Lots of people never have to pay inheritance tax. We won't have to, despite living a very comfortable life, because you only pay tax as a couple if the estate is worth more than £650,000.

Ah well, obviously paying inheritance tax is not going to trouble me, then.