to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

[FasterStronger]

Flatpack is correct. its global competition keeping salaries low, particularly low skilled salaries.

[Lazyjaney]

"The thing is, none of these benefits will still be available for the current 30 and 40 year olds when we retire"

Probably many low 50s as well. But this is the main evidence that the current deal is not sustainable.

I think many arguing the old days were tough are missing the big picture benefits people had then - full employment, affordable and available housing, most social spending on children and the working generation. The current generation doesn't get these.

Arguablty there has been a major transfer of wealth from workers to retired people over the last 15 years or so (size of baby boomer wave), the problem is it tends to be stuck in assets so the money isn't being spent as it would be if families had it.

It will only change politically when working people come out to vote as much as the retired do, I suspect it will be seen more in protests at specific policies.

[niceguy2]

All this austerity is really bad for the economy.

It depends on what you mean. It's not doing the economy any favours right now. But in my opinion getting our national finances in order now is better for the economy in the long run. Debt is very much like a cancer. If you don't tackle it early enough it can grow to the point where it's too late to do anything about it. Despite the sideeffects we treat cancer with drugs because we understand doing nothing is far worse. So we accept the pain of chemo and the hair loss for the long term good. It's the same here. There is no sensible pain free solution as tempting as it may be to wish there is one. Beware of those selling miracle cures.

Look at Greece for example. They just borrowed and borrowed, spent & spent until the inevitable happened. Now they're in deep shit and their economy and standard of living is in dire straits. Thankfully we're not at that point yet but we are/were heading in the same direction.

[handcream]

If we arent careful the message will be 'spend, spend, spend to ensure that you have little assets apart from your house'.

And then you will expect others to fund you, problem is they are all doing the same as you!

[FasterStronger]

older peoples assets will be recycled back into the economy when they live to a great age and need to pay for care.

[jacks365]

Sorry handcream i misunderstood your post. I do think though that the fabian society has said right these people have spare money so how do we get our hands on it.

The reason cb is worth means testing and not wfa is the amount that each is so at least £1000 compared to £200, if it cost say £300 average for each one saved then cb saves money and wfa costs.

Can anyone honestly say they would vote for a party who stated they were going to make everyone's life worse?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

jacks, it depends on what they said. I would vote for a party that said that if we were generally all in it together, as opposed to some of us being in it more than others. I don't think this government has been honest at all and I think they are continuing to be very dishonest about who is paying the most, etc.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Disclaimer: I'm not saying labour would be any better. They all suck.

[FasterStronger]

so 'who is paying the most' ihategeorge. who is ' in it more than others'?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Well for a start, single income families on just over 50k are losing (in our case 2.5k per annum) child benefit. That's a huge amount of money for a family to lose, especially when you consider that families on a joint income of nearly twice that can keep the lot. I think the bedroom tax is a vicious policy, hitting families who have no where else to go disproportionately harder than many, particularly pensioners who are not being hit by this at all. Earners on 150k a year are having a tax cut and regardless of whether or not they will spend more money, I think it is very unfair at a time when everyone else is feeling the pinch. Why can't we all have a tax cut? I certainly feel as if I am 'in it' more than many others.

[HeadFairy]

Niceguy, I'm not sure we can compare ourselves to the Greeks. They have (had?) a massive level of corruption and non tax payment and a system that allowed 12 months pay for 10 months work plus retirement at 50 for most on full final salary (I think, I'm wandering around at the mo and can't check). Co incidentally it was a similar picture in Italy (where most of my day's family live) and look what happened there...

[bassetfeet]

I wonder why the govt dont link the fuel allowance to pension credit .
This is already linked to council tax help I think . The data base is there and so should not need too much admin to deal with .
Those who need it will use it for intended purpose believe me .

[jennywren45]

YANBU. But as you say, there's not a cat in hell's chance of this happening under a tory government.


Labour had thirteen years to do something and didn't. Don't be so daft blaming the coalition.

[HeadFairy]

Greek tax evasion

[handcream]

Jacks, I fear the careful will be penalised. FWIW - I think pensioners blocking council houses and living in houses that they dont own but claiming they wont/dont want to move should be seriously looked at.

How can it be right that someone is in a 3 bed house and its just them! I have mentioned before that my DB lives in Central London and next door to a 62 year old women who has never worked, children have left and is now residing in a 3 bed flat on taxpayers expenses. How can that be right. If I live in a house and for one reason or another I cannot afford it I HAVE to move regardless of how long I have been living here or how old I am.

The WFA and free travel is not such an issue for me. My DM uses the tubes and buses extensively because she doesnt drive. When I retire I am likely to not have a use for public transport so wont use it.

I also fear that as I have a private pension I will be looked at with regard to state pension. There is a ton of people who have paid next to nothing into system and they will have to be catered for.

[handcream]

Its laugable how Greece allowed retirement at 50 and apparantley (someone please correct me if wrong!) you could pass your final salary pension onto any unmarried daughters!

And they had the cheek to demo in the streets!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Pensioners also have a higher personal allowance than working people"

Not much and it's been frozen to allow the working-age personal allowance to catch up. There will soon be no difference at all.

[GrowSomeCress]

Ah yes, tax the careful ones who have worked their arses off for years to save up to enjoy their retirement.

[mum2jakie]

OP YANBU. Surely when you consider that pensioners form by far the biggest proportion of the Welfare bill, something has to give? Free TV licences sounds the easiest one to cut. How can we argue that is essential spending when we are all 'in it together?'

[FasterStronger]

ihate but the 150k earner will still be paying over 58k tax and NI per year. that is over 1/3 of their time at work just to pay tax.

the 50k family will only be paying 14k per year. as they are a high income family the country cannot afford to give them any child related benefits.

[Cerisier]

Back in the 1960s when people retired at 65 life expectancy was under 70 years, so the pension didn't usually have to be paid for long and people didn't live in their last, biggest, house for long.

I look at my retired parents in their big house and all the pensioners in the big houses round them. Those houses should be housing families, not just one or two people for forty years.

I would like to see singles or couples taxed hugely in big houses to encourage them to sell and release the houses for families. Nobody needs a huge house to themselves and if they do, then they should pay for the privilege.

I think the housing issue is as important as the tax one.

[ihategeorgeosborne]

Agreed Cerisier

[FasterStronger]

I would like to see singles or couples taxed hugely in big houses to encourage them to sell and release the houses for families. Nobody needs a huge house to themselves and if they do, then they should pay for the privilege.

how much tax? based on value?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I would agree with you Fasterstronger, if the cuts to CB were fair. They are not. A family on 50k is not as wealthy as a family on 90k, therefore neither should receive CB, regardless of how the income is split between partners. The family on 90k between two earners is far wealthier than the family on 50k with one earner.

[jennywren45]

My MIL has never done a day's work in her life and gives her WFA to her ( equally lazy) daughter.

My parents both worked all their lives and you propose to remove it form them but allow my skiving, wasting MIL to keep hers?

Stuff that.