to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

At what point though jacks do you tell future generations that they won't get the same? When we had children, we factored in child benefit because we received it, it was a universal benefit. Why would we think we wouldn't receive it. The same goes for pensions. My dh and I are in our early 40s. We so far have not been told we will not get a state pension or access to the NHS. If this is to be removed for us (which it will), when will the powers that be inform us of this change? We should be told that from a certain year, we will not be entitled to anything. We do need to be told, as we will have to make even bigger provisions for our future. To be mis-informed and yet continuing to pay NI is theft if they will reneg on the terms and conditions we have also been led to believe will be there for us.

After the maj of which is spent on keeping the older generation healthy and alive.

If we want that to continue we all need to contribute more,some of us already are.

My personal view is that voluntary euthenasia will become much more common place in future. It will become accepted and people will plan for it.

In ancient hunter gatherer societies it was common for old people in times of famine to deliberately starve themselves to death in order to allow the younger generations to eat. In times of plenty they lived on and contributed as a repository of wisdom and knowledge and revered as 'elders' whilst caring for children and the home so the younger people could work and hunt. For them there was no such thing as retirement.

I can see that system returning and I believe it already has to some extent in Japan and in places like Greece where the state has effectively imploded.

I know we dont want to think about it and politicians do not want to debate it but at the individual level I strongly believe that many more people will make that personal choice once their health and wealth has been depleted and the state cannot be relied upon to care for them.

I think people will just toughen up and be less whingey.

I find it hard to comprehend this oap bashing on a couple of points; in the main this group of people cannot increase their income, a sahp can return to work, you can choose how many children you can afford etc.

They were told what they needed to pay in and what the returns would be, I am pretty damned sure that if someone told you to pay a pound a week and at the end of the year we'll give £1000, no sums don?t add up but hey would you refuse, no me either!

In the main this generation have a very strong work ethic and where health has allowed have supported themselves and their families, the benefit system hasn?t always paid for peoples choices, my Nan god rest her soul married what today would have been a feckless -pillock- he left her in the 50's with two young children, there was no benefits for her she worked her backside off in any job she could get to support her children, she received free school meals when they were old enough to go to school, so in some respects you could say they are receiving benefits now in lieu of what they didn?t when they were struggling to raise families.

Having children, buying houses etc are life choices, growing old isn?t!

I'm happy to toughen up Faster, I've already had to. I just want to be clear that we're all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Square my parents are in their late 70s - although I can't believe we are quibbling about a few years here. My Dad gave a talk about living through WW2 at the DCs school 3 years ago, so he definitely lived through it and remembered it.

He was sent to the countryside, didn't see his mother for the best part of a year, dug potatoes, turnips and swedes after school, along with all the other kids at his school. My parents remember their first banana and talk with genuine affection about getting an orange for Christmas!!!!! The thing was back then, everyone had it tough - didn't matter if you had money, there was virtually no imported goods. Food was rationed for 14 years. It was so significant when it finally ended that people held ceremonies & celebrations to mark the occasion & it was actually butter that was the last thing to be unrationed.

Most people of their generation aren't moaners though & don't have the sense of entitlement that so many people seem to have nowadays.

When my parents were first married, they had a bed, 3 chairs & table. It took them years to put a proper house full of furniture together. My Mum wore hand knitted swimsuits as a kid, because you couldn't buy real swimsuits. They think it is quite funny that kids nowadays think they should have TVs, DrDre headsets & ipods.

I really don't think taxing pensioners is the answer to anything.

Square - more often that not, you couldn't get your full ration allocation, because the food wasn't available in the shops. Also don't forget everything had to be cooked from scratch, so you needed sugar to make jam, add to pureed fruit, make a cake, make sweet pastry, make chutney or any kind of pudding etc. It isn't as though they were troughing down bags of M&Ms.

I hate George. I do not believe that the nhs or state pensions will go in our lifetime. I do think the state pension will reduce in real terms and that the nhs needs a serious overhaul but they will still be there if really needed but maybe they do need to pull back to core health issues i know there are a few things funded on the nhs that i don't agree with.

I always buy a new coat with my heating allowance,on the basis,if it gets too cold,I can put my coat on.your turn will come one day..meantime,make good use of all those child benefits,tax breaks,etc etc,you all get ...I have earned this.

Can somebody please lend square a history book.

Square -arguing for the return of rationing ? Or saying pensioners who went through it had it better than you?

Getting a bit weird now.

Twat.

Err why exactly Rosa.

Fruit an veg were never rationed,bananas and oranges scarce but there were other options.

People grew their own.

Nope simply saying that these supposed years of austerity were a brief period of rationing which improved on a sliding scale and was but a very small fraction of a pensioners life.They were children and very,very few fought in the war.They were followed by the 50s and 60s.

Certainly no reason for them not to pay their way today and help to make up their shortfall.

do you know anyone old Square?

how you talk about old people is just really different than any of the ones I know.

Sorry haven't read all of this.
I thought pensioners paid tax the same as everyone else - do they get a bigger personal allowance?
Oh, looks like it is 26,000 for those over 65.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm
If that is the case then it seems a bit generous to me.

Does anyone know if I am reading this correctly?

You are reading it wrong. The £26 000 is a cap so if your income is over that you don't get any age related allowances at all.

Err ...cos you are talking the biggest load of hogwash .....and quite frankly I am begining to question your actual contribution to this thread other than trying to wind people up by your silly non factual posts

so pensioners actually get a whopping great extra £1k per year in their personal allowances.

They are as rich as Croesus.
Everyone one of them.
And really its our money.
and the war and rationing was easy.
....their entire lives were just so easy.
we have it really hard.

Or not.

OMG Square, they are paying their way today! Their savings are taxed, they pay council tax, they pay VAT on all items they purchase and they have paid tax all their lives. Quite alot of them are still members of the workforce - we have pensioners in the office I work in, the supermarket I shop in and my own parents only sold their small business last year - when they were 76 and 78. For all of those who have squirrelled away savings, then those will be used to pay for personal care when they are ill and too infirm to look after themselves

What extra tax would you have them pay?

When Square is a pensioner she will do a complete u -turn and claim she has been paying in all her working life so therefore she will be entitled to her pension.

I am not having a go at her. Everyone looks at things from the own point of view. Pensioners are a prime target for people who feel they are entitled to more from society.

is it unreasonable to say to pensioners - you keep all you have irrespective of wealth - i.e even if you are extremely wealthy by today's standards you still get winter fuel allowance bus pass etc - but by the same token the younger generation don't need to have anything to do with you. Hypothetically - if your own parents were extremely wealthy and you were struggling on the breadline - is it reasonable to say - the older generation keeps all they have but they don't get visits / involvement with the younger generation (mainly because the younger generation are working all hours that god sends) and they should not moan about not receiving visits etc from their younger family.
I think this is reasonable. Am I being unreasonable in thinking a level of informal generational apartheid is understandable and acceptable

Bubbles, not quite sure I understand your argument. The familial relationship is usually about more than money.

The way I see it, my parents, housed me, fed me, nursed me, wiped my bum, cared for me and ensured my safe arrival into the adult world. Regardless of how much money they may or may not have, I still think that is worthy of some reciprocal care on my behalf.

We're talking about wealthy pensioners(see op ).

Yet again so who should stump up the shortfall?

Perhaps Mr Paxman can explain it better.

Boomers-selfish-generation-history.html