to hope the government has the guts to tax WEALTHY pensioners more

[ReallyTired]

The Fabian society has suggested that wealthy pensioners pay more tax.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22220345

Some how I can't see a conservative wanting to tax wealthy pensioners more when they all vote Tory.

I find it unfair that pensioners with an income more the average family's income get free bus buses, winter fuel allowance, TV licence as well as paying less tax and national insurance. It is about time that the the wealthy pensioners took their share of the pain of the cuts.

I am in favour of well off pensioners having free bus passes, winter fuel allowance as these things encourage independence and improve health. I would like to see the money for these things clawed back by WEALTHY pensioners paying more income tax.

IMVHO for my generation and the next generations it boils down to savings and pensions, we can't expect anything from the state when we retire, and I think we should realise that now and do something now. And prepare for this. I also think in my lifetime the NHS will cease to exist so medical bills will need to be taken into account.

Owning and having equity in a house to use in retirement is a pipe dream for many so we can't on the whole rely on that (unless there is a massive housing crash). So end of life care going into a retirement home will need to be taken into account.

I earn just over 16k I have a pension at 5% I am 27, this should, if my maths is correct be a comfortable retirement. This is based on me retiring at 70 (By the time I am 70 it will probably be more like 80) and me staying with the company I work for now.

Now savings, because rents are ridiculous where I live (and before anyone tells me to move, who will do my job?) think £700 per month for a 1 bed flat (this is away from the drug dealers/crack heads/prostitution) how can I save for a future (except my pension) when I have to save for a deposit for a rental. Taking on an extra job is impossible as I do not work set shifts.

Yes under this government I will pay less tax, but that is taken by VAT going up to 20%.

I do not think pensioners should be taxed heavily as they have paid tax already. I do not know what the solution is, but I think everyone needs to stop relying on the state.

Ironically dh aged 77 and I still do some work and pay taxes. Dh does invigilation as do I. I also do some exam marking and private tuition. We use the extra to treat the grandchildren at Christmas and birthdays. I look after my youngest grandchildren two afternoons a week and babysit whenever I am asked.
I do feel fortunate but like so many things I feel the government needs to explore the huge corporate pots before picking pensioners pockets.
I wouldn't mind doing without the Winter fuel allowance and the TV licence but I would really resent extra tax on the pensions which are already taxed at standard rates.

I realise that I contradicted myself there, I mean my generation and future generations. And I mean pensions not anything else.

I really do grind my teeth at 'I fought in the War' and 'I paid my NI'.

No you really really didnt fight in the war unless you are 90 years old and even then you really really didnt pay enough NI because you have lived far too long to have paid enough in.

At the very least pensioners should sell their house to pay for care - as the houses most pensioners live in have huge untaxed capital gains stored up in them and they now need to use those gains to pay for care. Of course the Coalition is dodging that issue too.

yes the politics of envy from people who prefer to blame others than take responsibility for their own lives.

By the way, I am 49 now and I have used every possible (legal) means to avoid paying into a pension all my life as I know perfectly well I will not get out what I put in.

I advise everyone else to do the same - put as little in as possible and take out far more. Its what the baby boomers did.

Please do NOT stay in the new automatic enrolement workplace pension scheme. That is just a tax by another name. Opt out ASAP.

Is this the same unworkable economy as the one where we've recently had a dozen threads from SAHM who want changes to the taxation system the minute they decide to stop work, so that they get the double whammy of taxation to suit them when they work, and then taxation to suit them when they stop?! And the same unworkable economy where those SAHM also want other peoples taxes to pay for them to have childcare? That would be because they need a break from the grind of switching on the automatic washing machine and enabling more internetting time would it?

Honestly... I wonder whether today's pensioners have an equivalent to MN where they can all sound off about the incredulous entitlement of the younger generation... They sure need it by the sounds of it!

I am speechless! Let's put the elderly in workhouses, grab their assets and then make them sew sacks till they die. Thank God none of my dc feel that.
It is hard on future generations that they have to suffer for government incompetence and misjudging but fleecing pensioners isn't the answer. I would never have introduced tuition fees but in my day ( born 1944) very few people stayed at school post 15/16. There were apprenticeships and vocational courses and those who were able to work could usually get a job. My mum worked in a clothing factory all week and on a market stall at weekends. My dad was disabled (MS) from the age of 38 till he died aged 70.
What today's workers have to face is not our fault we are receiving back what we paid in. Most of us have never received benefits before pension age. Saying "It's not fair" isn't helpful. Don't you want your parents to have a comfortable old age? As for early retirement it was pushed on teachers in the 80's and 90's. The packages offered were generous. It was so that there would be jobs for the newly qualified who would, of course, cost less than those at the top of the scale. I have every sympathy for those struggling now. The world is in recession but it won't be solved by taxing the vulnerable.

I entirely agree, grey. And I'm damn sure those people who want to see the elderly shafted at the moment, will be singing a different tune when it comes to their own retirement!

morebeta really?

Before I jump to an unsubstantiated judgement. Do you have any savings or own your own home? Or are you just planning on living off the state and complaining that they don't give you enough?

The grey you.have.not.paid.enough.in!

Somebody has to pick up the tab and families are already having to shove babies into full time childcare in order to afford a shoebox and will have no pension,their dc will find it very difficult to go to uni etc,etc.

Exactly who do you want to fund the NHS bills that as a country we can't afford?Young families are already doing their bit even though they aren't the demographic that runs up the bills and it won't even be there when they retire.

I'm also wondering about morebeta's confidence here.

49? Plenty of time for the government of the day to take you up the clacker in your retirement.
Aghast at the reference to 90 year-olds living past their payments into the NI.

"lets pretend I don't and you explain to me which bit is unworkable at the moment"

It's been explained again and again on this thread tbh.

But in a nutshell today's retired people did not pay enough money to support themselves, and they are now being funded by today's working people. But as the retired population grows and stays retired for longer and the working population shrinks, the concept of taxing the working people more and more to pay off the retired is increasingly unsustainable.

More beta interesting post re pensions,what do you do to plan for retirement?

lazy

are you talking about state pension or other types of pension, if so which ones?

The cries about pensioners not paying enough into funds would be better addressed by just googling " How pension holidays by businesses has affected the UK economy" and you'll see that it was government who kissed the ring piece of Big Business by allowing pension holidays amounting to years.

The same attitude has quite recently had the present government calling for tax breaks for private firms bidding to take on the more juicy bits of the NHS. That would be private enterprise. Our saviour. Not dependent on the state, oh no.

FFS.

bobbywash/echt - I dont trust anything that any Govt promises. I have lived long enough to have gone through umpteen changes to private and state pension schemes already so what I get out at the end as a pension is anyones guess. What I pay in now will make no difference to what I get in the end. Any 'voluntary' state pension contribution I make now is just a tax to pay current pensioners.

I bought my first (and last ever) house a few weeks ago and have some savings. Everything I have I have earned. I have inherited nothing and probably won't. I do work and that is it.

Squarepebbles - totally agree. Pensioners just havent paid enough in and those that retired early on final salary public sector pensions most definitely did not.

Funny how those at the top of the public sector just about to retire have pulled up the ladder behind them and stopped final salary schemes for new members as well as increasing future contributions - but not for themselves.

Sorry but the amount we paid into TPS was enough if it had been invested wisely. As for the NHS apart from my cancer treatment which was paid for with a health insurance, I doubt we have used it as much as the average young family. I just don't understand what exactly you want from us, why you are envious,what do you want for your own old age? Tell me exactly what you want to take from us and what you will give in return. So far I gather you want me to sell my bungalow and use the money to fund a care home (which I don't need). You want to tax my pension above the standard rate. You want my bus pass,my TV licence, my fuel allowance...anything else? A few pints of blood maybe...no my cancer treatment means you can't use it,although it makes good fertiliser I believe.

Many of those who retired early on public sector pensions were persuaded to do so to suit the short-term book of the government, e.g. expensive lags out and cheap grads in.

The same happened in the coal mining areas when laid-off miners were "encouraged" to go for disability rather than unemployment benefits to make the figures look good. Now those same people are being hounded for not really being disabled because the government wants someone else to kick.

Squarepebbles - my retirement plans are to use up my savings and sell my home and move into a smaller one. I expect the state will give me some sort of pension - and it will probably be means tested so the less wealth and income I have to 'means test' the more they will give me.

I fully expect Govts of all kinds to introduce some kind of wealth tax and that will happen regardless of who is in power. It is being widely talked about in the EU and LibDems are increasingly pushing the idea of a 'mansion tax' so I expect it to be part of the ongoing mainstream debate about tax. Fact is that Govts go where the money is and property, pension pots and inherited wealth are really lightly taxed at the moment.

thegreylady - what percentage of your salary did you pay in to the TPS? Are you on a final salary pension now? When did you retire and at what age?

thegreylady - what percentage of your salary did you pay in to the TPS? Are you on a final salary pension now? When did you retire and at what age?

it doesn't matter how much she paid in, as she paid in what she was asked to pay in. its not her fault the amount was too low.

morebeta, can I ask the value of your equity? you have said you plan living off it.

I an interested to see the maths.

After again so who should pick up the shortfall or should we all just stick our fingers in our ears sing la,la,la and pretend it's not there ?

Of course it matters. It is the crux of the entire debate - which is about intergenerational equity.

If a typical teacher paid in 15% of their gross salary to TPS for 30 years and retIred at 55 and then lives another 30 years. The pension they should expect is only 15% of their gross final salary assuming the pension pot and final salary pension continues to grow at the same rate as the overall economy plus inflation.

Most teachers who retired at 55 are on far far better pensions than that but that is how pension maths really works and the excess is being paid by current workers.