to expect horse (and rider) to reverse for me!

[AliBingo]

Genuinely puzzled here- I live down a single-track lane which is very narrow and windy so you have to drive slowly, anyway I met a horse-rider when I went out earlier.

Where we met, the rider was just past a field gateway passing place - the horse was about halfway past it, so its back legs and the saddle, and the rider herself, were still alongside the passing place. I stopped in plenty of time (couple of car lengths away) and waited for them to get into the passing place.

I waited and after about 30 seconds, rider did a hand gesture to indicate that I was to reverse! I duly reversed about 200 feet back down the lane and then sat waiting for about a minute while the rider proceeded to the passing place alongside me.

She looked a bit grumpy and didn't thank me, presumably because I hadn't reversed straightaway. But I had expected her to go into passing place!

So I am now wondering if it's not even possible to get a horse to back up/turn around/reverse etc - can you tell that I know nothing about horses!

WIBU to expect them to go into the passing place practically next to them, or does car etiquette not apply when the other vehicle is a horse!

Thanks!

I agree with TobyL, I'm a groom, and would have just gone to nearest passable place.

Beanie, I am intrigued as to what possible situation could involve you needing to ask someone to get off a horse. I can't think of anything! What legislation gives you the right to order someone to do that? I don't think getting off is generally the problem though, it would be getting back on that would cause issues!

Its just a nonsense thing to say, possibly based on ego and a power trip, or at the very least a lack of training in dealing with equine issues.

Making up a requirement to mount and dismount unaided would discriminate against those disabled riders who cannot do so, and effectively consign them to riding in very limited situations. The fact that there is a duty under the DDAs to make adjustments to gates on bridlepath, etc to be accessible to the disabled reflects this. And I'm pretty sure it would be ultra vires police powers as well.

If I'd been on loan horse (beautiful well behaved wb) I'd have reversed and waited but on our new naughty doesn't like to stand still(is getting better), not scared of cars but likely to swing out cause he doesn't like waiting cob I'd have asked you to reverse, I have to do a bit of road riding and make a big point of always thanking (waving and big smile) every car who passes considerately.

Ohhh, it happened to me too, LessMissAbs!!!

"In actual fact Beanie it happened to me while I was a student, when I was riding my 14.2 (that's a pony) to the beach. He was perfectly well behaved, we were waiting at traffic lights, and a police car drew up alongside with a very over-excited officer in it, who demanded that I dismount."

I was riding, single file with friend, on a narrow lane. We had unexpectedly encountered a huge amount of traffic (it turned out that a road-work diversion sign had been set up facing the wrong way, and sent an unending stream of vehicles up the lane). We were undoubtedly holding them up, but there wasn't a lot we could do about it, so we kept going single-file letting as many pass as we could.
A policeman on a motorbike arrived, started to question us and (possibly annoyed by the fact that by now our horses wouldn't stand very still) told us to "dismount and stand still". We assumed we had to obey, so we did!
Immediately, instead of two horse with riders walking in single file, in a narrow lane, in an unending stream of traffic, we had two horses, three people on foot and one parked motorbike, in a (much less mobile) unending stream of traffic . It was chaos.
Anyway, it was getting really difficult, and the horse I was holding by this point was starting to get a bit bolshy, when into the midst of all this arrived two more policemen (they drove a police car up an even tinier track to get there). Actually, they were lovely. They explained what had happened, said they were sorry we had got caught up in it, and 'borrowed' a field to give us a safe place for the horses while they cleared the lane. (Their motorbike colleague was first off the scene and didn't speak to us again).

Haven't read the whole thread, but it seems fairly logical to me that if the horse cannot easily reverse with the rider seated then the rider should dismount and help the horse into the passing place. That is far easier than a car reversing 200 feet down a narrow lane.

samandi - you should read the thread

There are dozens of reasons across half a dozen statutes why you might be instructed to dismount; public order, traffic incidents, searches etc etc. If you really want me to I can hunt out my copy of Blackstone's and start quoting?

Likewise I'm not sure why the DDA is an issue here any more than it is for policing motorists?

I like to encourage good relations across all road users but entitled and ignorant attitudes like yours are one of the reasons why horse riders are treated so badly on roads. You seem to be the equine equivalent of a lycra lout.

Beanie , if you can please . Act , section and paragraph . For the greater good ......

I struggle to mount without a block or leg up as I am 5;1 but don't ride a pony - I would expect the police to give me a leg up!

Thanks to this thread I have now had to go and look up "leg yield", a term I had never previously heard

Also, all the discussion of merits or otherwise of dismounting made me think of something I saw the other day in Bristol centre, where two police officers were on horseback at a pretzel kiosk buying their lunch. I don't know if it was a regular thing but the horses seemed quite keen to get their heads inside, perhaps they usually get a tidbit from the owner!

Just looked on that map and no traffic incidents near here, just a low-flying aircraft incident and a dog attack. Do dogs actually attack horses or just scare them into bolting? (mine does neither, just cowers behind me!)

Well if you insist although my ospre exams were a while ago. The obvious off the top of my head would be S35 of Road Traffic Act 1988.

Then there's a whole swath of legislation around stop and search - S1 PACE 1984, S23 of Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and S43 & 47 of the Terrorism Act would cover it.

Again off the top of my head "vehicle" tends not to be defined in the acts themselves but going off the OED "a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart" would certainly cover a horse.

Again, I'm not arguing that such a instruction would be common or even desirable but its certainly possible and if a rider was unable to do so then I would not consider them in proper control of the horse.

I can just imagine - "I'm sorry, I can't get down to be searched as my horse is too big to get back on". "Never mind then, on your way."

Anyway, we're way past the point and in to technicalities to the point of forgetting the original argument and I'm too old to be convincing a random on the internet they're wrong so I'm out. Have a good evening.

Told you. Pissing like a racehorse contest.

"I'm a police officer!"

"Well, I'm a lawyer!"

"Well, my horse is bigger than yours!"

Ridiculous.

Toby - they're both in the police. Which makes it even funnier :o

You are being a tad ridiculous Beanie - how on earth do you think I got off the horse for lunch and a pint of Guinness

Isn't Plomino a lawyer?

I agree with Beanie's last 3 paragraphs, actually.

No Plomino is also in the police. It was someone else who was the lawyer.

But I agree that last 3 paras are v sensible.

Albingo .... means horse goes sideways as well as forward. sorta diagonally across and arena but still with its body aligned centrally ifywim

....... but if you want to get into even smaller places instead of just steering in with the reins ( takes most distance as horses neck bends and legs stay straight .....) try leg yielding where all the horses legs almost cross as they move forward............or for the tightest spaces try side pass where it can cross its legs and move directly sideways. ( crude description )

imagine horse astride a pole on the ground with front legs on one side and back legs on the other then moving sideways . Western ridden horses are more often trained to do this that english ridden......... we are a hybrid of both and find it very handy at times.

Ah, then you're right -- that does make it funnier :o

I actually wasn't having a pissing contest ! But when someone comes onto a thread and uses the phrase 'I'm a police officer ' and quoting random acts of law to try and win an argument , then surely asking for clarification can only be a good thing ?

As it happens , I agree with Beanie on many points . Certainly about road users responsibility to be equally considerate . We just have different viewpoints on other aspects .

Sorry....

How many horse riders do you police officers meet on a daily basis... And order them to dismount for a search?? Really?? Do you meet many criminals engaging in suspicious activity whilst on horseback???

Encounter a police officer in a rural area.... They didnt even flippin attend when I reported a break in at my stables!!!!

If I'm not at work , I meet about a dozen a day . Stop them all the time (mainly for the gossip ! ) but haven't felt the need to search any neighbours yet ......

Meeting criminals being naughty whilst on horseback? Well apart from the flasher who ran away sharpish with his accoutrements blowing in the wind , none !

Beanie you're floundering and trying to make up the law as you go.

Again, I'm not arguing that such a instruction would be common or even desirable but its certainly possible and if a rider was unable to do so then I would not consider them in proper control of the horse

I cannot see how you draw a correlation between the legislative examples you give and the act of dismounting (or mounting) a horse.

Its something you have made up entirely on your own.

I can only see its relevance if you have reasonable suspicion to stop and search, or to arrest. And I emphasise reasonable suspicion, not just a desire to control those pesky horseriders.

You also seem unaware of the civil law implications of your work, and the duty of care if you get it wrong. Do you understand the consequences if a horse gets loose on the public highway because the rider has been instructed to dismount and no longer control it? What if a major RTA occurred because of it?

The only cases I'm aware off even remotely in point concerned persons who were convicted of a common law offence whilst being drunk and riding through a town centre. I think the convictions were on the basis of witness evidence and did not involve the dismounting of the horse, although from memory I think they were unreported cases which nevertheless may feature in some Scots law textbook somewhere.

Have just read the whole thread and I'd like to say that in general drivers should give consideration to horses for the sake of safety and simple manners. I agree with all the posts about horses being easily spooked and an accident really can happen in a second. Inconsiderate drivers massively increase the danger of this, and it really is impossible to avoid riding on roads nowadays. However on the occasion in question when the rider was practically still in the passing place then she should have deferred to the car, after all the driver was being considerate and had stopped, she had done nothing to distress the horse. There's nothing to suggest the horse was upset in any way (rider had waited, apparently calmly, before signalling) so I can't see any reason why it shouldn't have gone into the passing place either by reining back or turning round. I think the rider was rude not to say thanks, I always smile and nod at the very least, if the car window is open I make sure the driver hears me say thank you. I usually get a cheery wave and smile in return unless the driver is a complete git. I do my best to dispel the myth that all horseriders are snobby and if I rode out with someone who thought they owned the road it would be the last time I rode with them. The roads are dangerous enough, we should all be helping each other to stay as safe as possible, regardless of what the highway code says.

Reversing (doing a "rein back") is an advanced manoevre that many horses couldn't do and I'd say the majority of riders these days could not perform. I could do it on my hunter because he was an exceptionally well schooled show horse.
Butkin, are you serious? I'm by no means an expert rider and I've never so much as sat on a well-schooled show horse but I think of rein back as a basic manoeuvre. I wouldn't expect everybody to be able to do it for much of a distance as it is quite physically demanding of the average hacking horse, but certainly I think most riders could achieve a few steps, (which is all that was needed in this case), unless on a very green youngster, or a horse that was hyped up for some reason. It's really not that hard.

Beanie are you for real?! If you're a police officer you show a lamentable lack of basic knowledge of the law. A vehicle is defined as being mechanically propelled

And I'm 5'9" so can easily get back on a horse of any size. However most 5' tall riders wouln't be able to remount a large horse without assistance or a mounting block - doesn't mean that they wouldn't be in perfect control when sitting on its back.