to expect horse (and rider) to reverse for me!

[AliBingo]

Genuinely puzzled here- I live down a single-track lane which is very narrow and windy so you have to drive slowly, anyway I met a horse-rider when I went out earlier.

Where we met, the rider was just past a field gateway passing place - the horse was about halfway past it, so its back legs and the saddle, and the rider herself, were still alongside the passing place. I stopped in plenty of time (couple of car lengths away) and waited for them to get into the passing place.

I waited and after about 30 seconds, rider did a hand gesture to indicate that I was to reverse! I duly reversed about 200 feet back down the lane and then sat waiting for about a minute while the rider proceeded to the passing place alongside me.

She looked a bit grumpy and didn't thank me, presumably because I hadn't reversed straightaway. But I had expected her to go into passing place!

So I am now wondering if it's not even possible to get a horse to back up/turn around/reverse etc - can you tell that I know nothing about horses!

WIBU to expect them to go into the passing place practically next to them, or does car etiquette not apply when the other vehicle is a horse!

Thanks!

The point is that everybody who uses the roads , should behave with equal courtesy . Motorcyclists to riders , car drivers to tractor and lorry drivers to pedestrians . We all have to use the roads , for whatever reason , be that going to work or for leisure purposes . No one's journey is more worthy than another , no matter what class of vehicle excise duty they pay .

I acknowledge every considerate driver , or cyclist or whoever , but rude people get my back up if they're on the back of a horse , behind the wheel of a car , or on foot . And there are plenty of those about as well .

I'm very short, and my usual ride was a 15.2 mare, so hardly a Shetland.

I'm 5ft 8 , and ride a 14.2 Arab , a 16.3 warmblood , and soon a 15.2 warmblood as soon as the saddle fitter comes ! Size is frankly irrelevant . The biggest one is actually the most well trained , and bombproof on roads , but I still wouldn't get off him on a road , because where I live there are no verges to stand on to do it . I would have to make him stand still on the road , and I'm not turning us into a sitting duck for anyone .

Fortunately as all my neighbours have horses , we all drive considerately , usually waving at each other like mad things , and as most of the farmers know us , they tend to be the same !

I've never ridden anything that I couldn't, if I had to, mount from the ground on either side - is probably not very nice for the horse so I only do it if I've dropped my phone in an emergency and luckily never on a road (unless outside village shop counts as a road),

Anyway there are various road tests for riders, someone asked, the pony club do one I think and bhs too. I don't remember rein back being part of it though.

LessMissAbs

As a Police officer I expect horse riders to obey any instructions I may give them which might conceivably include instructing them to dismount. If you are not able to do so then you are not in full control of your animal and should not be on a public highway.

All road users should extend every courtesy to others on the road - be they a cyclist, pedestrian, on a horse or in a car. Motorists are expected to extend great care to horse riders as a vulnerable road user which would include leaving plenty of room, overtaking at a low speeds and so on.

Likewise, riders and cyclists are perfectly entitled to use the road and indeed to ride two abreast where safe to do so. However they are expected to extend the same consideration and respect to motorists - for example allowing a queue of fast moving traffic to overtake, not using footpaths etc.

Horse riders are expect to obey the Highway Code like any other road user - just because you're on an animal does not mean you take priority over anyone else.

Sometimes it is safer to ride two abreast.

I've had my foot hit by drivers twice, one of these times the driver managed to break his wing mirror on my foot so you can imagine what that felt like for me!!! That was on decent, wide roads so no excuse really.

I used to live and hack in a collection of single lane roads too narrow for a car to pass a horse (not just not wide enough, but so narrow the two could not fit alongside and no space to move on the verge because of high verges and hedgerow) and cars still tried to get past!

Pasing a test on one particular day would not prove anything. My horse is absolutely FINE in traffic MOST of the time - About 99.9999% of the time

The test is for the rider, not the horse.

I think there should be compulsory tests for all road users TBH. Too expensive and impractical though so I guess we have to deal with twats in whatever form they appear.

Well that's tough beaniestats, because I'm a lawyer, and my 17 hander is an ex-police horse.

I hope you realise that if you "instruct" a horserider to dismount, when in most cases, a rider has more control from the saddle, and that if an accident then insues, you are setting up your force for negligence action. Not only does a horse rider owe other road users a duty of care, but you do too, and letting your ego and personal viewpoint colour your judgement is potentially negligent. You are also aware that the strict liability created within the Animals Act is likely to be subjugated by a direct instruction from a police officer?

However, if you would like to point me towards some case law (as there is no legislation) that difficulty in mounting from the ground creates a legal presumption that a rider is out of control.

I can see nothing in which I have written that indicates (a) that I am not in full control of any horse I ride or (b) that I am likely to breach the (advisory) Highway Code, or more importantly, the Road Traffic Acts. Although now you appear to be suggesting that a lack of control is suggested by a rider being unable to dismount!

Please don't make up the law to suit yourself - you are not a lawyer or a legal draftsperson. Instructing riders to dismount in the middle of traffic has to be one of the most idiotic, dangerous things I've ever heard anyone suggest.

one of the horses who lives in the paddock behind my house would go bonkers if someone tried to back it up. i can just imagine :o

I agree that ALL road users should use the road courteously but i bet i am not the only person on this thread here who lives up a country lane that is used as a rat run and all the problems caused on the lane are caused by motorists, never horses!

and I don't even have a horse...before you ask

Nice to see that this has turned into a pissing contest. How very MN.

what is a pissing contest?
whilst ona horse or off?

Beaniestats. I too am a police officer .

Two things cross my mind . Firstly , yes we can instruct people to dismount , and indeed get on again , and if requested to do so by a Constable , then I could indeed do so . But getting off a horse and leading it doesn't make you any more in control . In fact it makes you less so , because its harder to control a horse on the ground due to our relative sizes . You're much more likely to get dragged if the horse really doesnt want to go somewhere . And Shetlands are the absolute worst for that .

Secondly , although I can get off , there are very very few circumstances in which it would be desirable for me to do so , unless it was an absolute emergency. Doesn't mean I'm not in control of him .

Would you argue in that case that Lee Pearson the 9 times paralympic medal winner isn't in full control of his animals ? Ellen Whittaker ? Mary King , who is small but rides big big horses to international success ?

I was wondering about disabled riders too, imagining some officious officer insisting that children on an RDA walk-out all dismount!

NorthernLurker, Just read your comment to lazyjaney on page 6, sorry but nowhere in those rules does it say horses have right of way. Yes heed a request to slow down or stop, nothing about heeding a request to reverse for 200 yards along a narrow country lane! And I'm pretty sure one horse doesn't count as a herd so I'm not even sure why you've highlighted that part.

Surely no-one argues that car drivers need to take special care around horses. However, even if it can be proven that horses have right of way surely some common sense needs to enter the equation. After all if I'm driving along the main road, stuck in rush hour traffic I have right of way over cars wanting to join the road, however I'm going to stop and let at least the first car out and expect the cars behind me to do the same.

Surely in any deadlock situation such as the OP describes the safest course is the best one and I'm pretty sure that moving the horse a few feet backwards, even 40 feet back along the road (by turning the horse round, I'm not expecting them to reverse that far, before the horsey crowd jumps on me from a great height) to allow the car into the turning place so that the horse can then pass safely, is a lot safer than reversing a car 200 yards up the road!

I'd also suggest that any rider incapable of turning their horse round, riding back a short distance, then turning back around and continuing their ride is not safe to be out on the public roads without qualified supervision.

Dismounting, particularly in traffic, is potentially very dangerous. If a horse is being held by the reins, its pretty easy for them to break free and get loose, if they are that way inclined. If you are in the saddle, you do have more control and at least if the horse does get a fright, have more of a chance of staying with it and reasserting control than if the horse is loose and long gone.

I can mount my 17 hander from the ground, but it takes longer to put my stirrup down than it does to hop on from a nearby wall, and the risk of the saddle slipping is much less. And I can see the day where I will no longer be flexible enough to do it.

You can be or ride what you like - however the fact is that as a road user you are expected to obey instructions from a police officer and that can include a request to dismount. Such a situation would be rare - I freely admit - but just because you're on a horse doesn't mean you can ignore this.

In our hypothetical situation I suppose you could always refuse but I imagine it wouldn't end well.

As an aside, I'm jealous of you having an ex police horse. I've not ridden for years, but was at FA cup on Saturday and they were out in force for crowd control. So beautiful!

In actual fact Beanie it happened to me while I was a student, when I was riding my 14.2 (that's a pony) to the beach. He was perfectly well behaved, we were waiting at traffic lights, and a police car drew up alongside with a very over-excited officer in it, who demanded that I dismount.

I calmly told him that I didn't think that was a very good idea, because I had more control for the saddle, and he would be liable for any ensuing road traffic incident that insued. He just got back in his vehicle and drove off, never saw him again, had a nice ride on the beach and rode home safely.

And you know what Beanie - if something similar happens, they can argue the toss with me in a court of law, because I am not being drawn into a risky situation by someone else's incompetence ignorance.

Binkybix my horse was actually retired from the mounted police after 18 months because he ahem proved too aggressive with his front feet. Not his hind feet - he tends to stamp with his forelegs. Hes excellent in traffic though, and loves dogs.

"But getting off a horse and leading it doesn't make you any more in control . In fact it makes you less so , because its harder to control a horse on the ground due to our relative sizes . You're much more likely to get dragged if the horse really doesnt want to go somewhere . And Shetlands are the absolute worst for that . "

Absolutely - I'm not arguing that an unmounted horse is more controlled than mounted, nor about the relative merits of Shetlands.

I am arguing that the ability for a rider to mount and dismount a horse at will (though not necessarily easily) is an important part of controlling one on a public highway. If you're not able to do this because the horse is too big then you shouldn't be riding it on the roads.

I'd refuse to beanie and then I'd gallop off and as horses don't have number plates and you are clearly no horse expert, you'd never find me!

So how do you think the rider gets on in the first place beaniestats?

And what law are you basing your personal assertion upon?

As I said above , I can . However after doing a dynamic risk assessment , most times I choose not to , because its more dangerous getting back on . Certainly in the very flat Fens where I live , with few handy fences , walls or grass verges to do it on in safety . And I'm not standing about on a road , even for a minute whilst I get on from the ground , with no safety margin between me and potential traffic . You know , as I do , that accidents happen in seconds .