To be worried about DD having her MMR

[snowyskies]

Donning flame-proof suit here but I think a good talking to might be just what I need!!

Eldest DD had MMR at 18 months. Afterwards she had 2 years of illness. Nothing major, ear infections, throat infections, pneumonia, kidney infections unexplained fevers. We went for lots of tests and nothing was found. While I'm not blaming the MMR I did have one dr tell me it was possibly because of it.

Second DD had a single measles jab at age 2. I discussed it with the drs and expressed my concerns about the effects the MMR had on eldest DD. they understood. She had a very bad reaction to the jab. Covered in spots, even on her eyelids. Raging temperature for a week and she screamed continually that whole time. The doctor said it was very unusual to react like that.

Third DD is now 5 and has not had MMR or measles jab. It's something I have researched at huge length. I have regularly discussed it with the drs and whilst they don't support me they understand my concerns but I need to do something about it. I am worried she could get measles so have booked her in for her MMR this week. The doctors have said she could well have a bad reaction.

AIBU to worry?

[technodad]

I am confused with the comments about the "bad history".

Your first experience had no proven correlation with the jab and you have made an unscientific theory based upon little or no evidence. The doctor probably just said it might be linked to hurry you up our of the surgery.

Your second experience was for the single jab and not the combined MMR, so not relevant to the triple vaccination. The reaction your child had was still small in comparison with the actual virus.

Vaccination is never without risk, but simply put, every shred of evidence and statistical analysis proves that the risk of not immunising is far greater (by a country mile) than any risks associated with immunisation.

As far as I am concerned, failing to immunise your children is Darwinian natural solution in action, since it might stop the trait of ignoring scientific evidence from being passed in through the gene pool.

This comment may seem rude, but the point of immunisation is to give herd protection (I.e. the whole of society), such that people who have a good reason for not being able to be immunised are protected too. I personally feel that failure to immunise is extremely selfish to your own child, and the rest of society. You don't want to risk your own DC (not that the risk is significant), but you rely in me taking that risk to keep your kids safe - gee, thanks.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I recognise you are only trying to do the best for your DC, but you are wrong, and YABU!

[snowyskies]

So many points of that I could take offence at. Suffice it to say that I had measles as a child as did my brother, both severely. And my own mother said that we had nowhere near as many spots as my middle DD did following the single vaccine.

Yes I cannot prove a link between the vaccine and my eldest DDs health problems but I'm not talking about a couple of colds. I am talking about a prolonged amount of time where she was ill. There wasn't a clear week in 18 months where she wasn't suffering with some or other ailment and she probably had 20+ courses of antibiotics in that time as well as steroids and other medication. I can't prove the vaccine did that, I also can't prove it didn't.

I appreciate all the responses on here from those who have battled with similar dilemmas. And I take on board what has been said about how I should get the MMR done. Thanks.

[narmada]

She had 20+ courses of antibiotics?!? That is insane. The poor thing.

Did she enter group daycare at the same time as MMR was given?

[snowyskies]

I know it's insane.

No she was at home with me. She couldn't start nursery until she was over 3 because she was never well enough. Rarely went to toddler groups or anything like that.

[narmada]

My DCs had most of the illnesses you mentioned, in the period you mentioned, plus chickenpox, giardiasis, roseola to name a few but never had that many antibios thank goodness.

Did she have any tests to determine whether she had any immune issues?

[snowyskies]

We had chicken pox too, slapped cheek, the hand and mouth one and numerous sickness bugs too. They did a lot of tests and never came up with anything.

[foreverondiet]

BTW if your second DD only had one jab - is she immune regardless of what your doctor said?

[snowyskies]

Is she immune? I guess she may not be? Isn't the booster to cover those the first vaccine didn't work for? Apparently a reaction like that is a indication of immunity (or so I was told) but there is a chance she might not be immune.

[nantynan]

This clip on YouTube sums up my views on vaccines

[technodad]

What a great video!

OP. notwithstanding the fact that you could take offence at my post. My main anger is not at parents, but at the Media.

For some reason, the media feel they must offer a balanced argument to every debate (possibly because it sells newspapers and advertisement slots). They even do this for scientific stories, which is completely wrong.

The disagreement from an absolutely tiny scientific minority represented such a small amount of scientific opinion that it shouldn't have even been news worthy (but editors don't care that their actions might kill children, as long as they sell their story in the most dramatic way). The Internet doesn't help either, since any uneducated nut job can write a credible looking website about how water has memory or how vaccinations are dangerous. Sadly, in today's world, people are more likely to believe some random idiot on the Internet that the scientific opinion from their doctor.

Your dilemma is made far more difficult because of these idiots, and I hope these irresponsible people don't lead to too many children being disabled or killed!

Good luck with your situation, I wish you all the best.

[technodad]

P.S. I should also say, that you decision on immunisation should be based upon your doctors advice. So if she/he says do it, the you should.

Clearly the posts in this thread do not represent medical advice, but simply facts about immunisation.

[traintracks]

Fantastic video! I wish we could link to that from the practice website.

Snowy skies, I'm a bit confused as well - again the disclaimer that this isn't personal medical advice - but....

• a child who has one MMR at 18 months but never has a booster is probably not immune (possibly your eldest daughter?)
  

• a child who had one single measles jab age 2 and never had a booster may, depending on their age, not be immune (daughter number 2?)
  

• and of course a five year old who hasn't been jabbed at all isn't immune.
  

And, I'm confused about why a GP would advise against a booster in the current measles outbreak - your daughter may of course be on chemo, be HIV positive or have some other medical condition that you don't want to share here and that is entirely your prerogative. But if it were me I would want to find out exactly why my GP wasn't suggesting a booster because from the history you have given, it is not obvious that any of your daughters are definitely immune. And of course they won't thank you if you leave them unvaccinated against rubella and they get it in pregnancy.


This is what severe measles looks like:

diagnosis-nerd.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/wotd-encephalitis.html

You don't need to be a radiologist to see the difference between the scans. That is encephalitis that is a complication of measles.

Or, your child gets measles, is ill for a bit then recovers. You relax, think that wasn't too bad and get on with your life. Sometime later (usually 6-15 years later) odd things start to happen. Your child's memory and behaviour change. You put it down to being a teenager. Then they lose control of their movement, have involuntary jerks. Can't walk. Can't talk. Can't swallow. They go into a coma. Best case scenario - if caught early - lifelong medication. Most die. Slowly. Takes about 3 years to die. Google subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. It is a rare complication, but it happens. So if you don't vaccinate, and one of your kids gets measles, be prepared to not be able to relax until they are adults.

I don't mean to be unpleasant. But if you are going to make a decision to risk leaving one or more of your children unvaccinated in the middle of a measles outbreak you need to know what risk you are making them take.

[snowyskies]

Eldest child had MMR then single measles vaccine booster. She will have rubella vaccine booster this year.
Middle DD had measles jab. Dr agreed she had severe reaction and left it to me to decide if she should have a booster. That if I was concerned it would be best to do a blood test to check immunity before doing a booster. She will have rubella when she is older.
Youngest will have MMR next week then depending on reaction will have booster when advised to do so.

[traintracks]

Dr agreed she had severe reaction

I still think this is odd and wonder if there is a misunderstanding. What you describe is not a recognised side effect of MMR, to my knowledge - does your GP actually think it was a side effect (in which case I'd be fascinated to know his/her reasoning) or hs he/she just agreeing with your theory to maintain the doctor patient relationship?

[snowyskies]

It was my middle DD who had a single measles jab who had the reaction. It was a typical measles rash and symptoms which apparently is a side effect of the jab, she just had it more severely than usual.

I'm fairly sure I didn't misunderstand the drs (3 I think) who saw her and told me it was a reaction to the measles vaccine.

I don't have a patient/dr relationship, big clinic different dr every visit!!

[Softlysoftly]

Argh traibtracks new guy are freaking me out! I'm pro vaccination, dd1 is protected but dd2 is 10 months so but vaccinated yet, only just released from paeds for a flu bug and mystery rash that knocked her down flat so still recovering plus being tested for tb exposure so currently we can't have the mmr.

We are in the outbreak area, her immunity is crap, I have to potentially choose between early mmr or bcg if she's well enough for either!

Sorry for the hijack op, I understand your worries but get them immunised. I'm currently not overly impressed children not old enough for mmr are at risk when with proper herd immunity they wouldn't be.

I'm also that all non-vax parents claim bit to be relying on others getting their dcs done, yet new there is a very real liklehood of them getting it ie the herd immunity they were not relying on had failed they are all scrambling to the vaccination clinics. I call bullshit!

[Talkinpeace]

DS had a serious reaction to his MMR : he was extremely poorly for over a week (covered in spots, feverish, etc)
Which proved to me that if the attenuated virus could do that to him, the real thing would have killed him.
Doctors HVs and medical friends agreed.

[Softlysoftly]

Now you, not new guy stupid phone!

[countrykitten]

I'm also that all non-vax parents claim bit to be relying on others getting their dcs done, yet now there is a very real liklehood of them getting it ie the herd immunity they were not relying on had failed they are all scrambling to the vaccination clinics. I call bullshit!

^this^

[traintracks]

Softlysoftly I really feel for you as it sounds like your child is one of the ones who should be able to rely on herd immunity. Could you ask your paediatrician for a discussion on the pros and cons of MMR now?

[Softlysoftly]

I'm waiting until we see the tb nurses Friday for test results in all 3 of us then hopefully book into gp for a discussion.

I'm a bit annoyed at tb nurses as dfil had had tb since November (diagnosed) yet despite my repeated asking they "forgot" to tell me we needed testing. It was only on admission to paeds when I mentioned it is passing abs her chest xray came up with a shadow that they went and kicked the tb clinic had they sorted this earlier we may have been fine for early mmr.

[bubbles1231]

mY DS1 had bad reaction to first MMR fever for 3 days, ill for a week, rash etc. I assumed from that he had mounted a good immume response. we delayed hid preschool one til he was nearly 5 and a half and he had no reaction to that whatsoever.

[traintracks]

Bubbles - but he was potentially susceptible to measles for two years.

[bubbles1231]

I was under the impression that 95% of children respond to their first MMR. Tthe second one was to catch 95% of the 5% who hadn't repsonded the first time.

[traintracks]

Fair enough, I didn't know that and assumed it was to boost falling immunity. Out of interest what is your source for that fact?