To not know what to do about this situation with my sister and her kids?

[emeraldgirl1]

I don't know what to do and would love some dispassionate advice.

I have a newborn DD (4weeks) , my first.

I have always adored my sister's 3 children, 6, 4 and 2, though they are what I would have in the past called 'spirited' in the extreme.

They came to visit day and for the third time in a row since DD arrived their visit was hell on earth. They woke her in her pram, they fought and screamed at each other, the eldest broke a newborn toy that was a gift, they chased each other round and round the kitchen where I was feeding DD for 20 mins, and a nice piece of furniture was damaged by them 'surfing on it' in the other room, I had no idea til I went in later. My sister cannot (never has been able to) control them. When I asked in desperation if they might 'prefer' to watch a DVD rather than chase each other round the kitchen my sister said they had been sitting for ages and needed to burn off some energy..l

I had told her I have only had a few hours sleep these past few nights. I am exhausted and struggling a bit. Their visit today made me stressed beyond belief and DD took hours to settle afterwards. She is a very poor sleeper and had just dropped off half an hour before my two year old nephew woke her. I don't blame him, he wanted to see the baby but my sister did nothing to stop him wobbling the pram. I tred to stop him but my sister is very defensive and reacts very badly indeed to any notion that she isn't exercising any control at all. I told him No three times but didn't know what else to do when he ignored me again and again, also I thought my sister was keeping an eye on him but she evidently wasn't!!

I have always struggled with my sister even when I am not zombie like from lack of sleep, she is a very difficult personality. In addition this is not a simple situation, she is very isolated and I can't simply shut the door on her and her children. I have spent a long time being a very hands on aunt and the trouble is that now my priority has to be DD. I have long known that my nieces and nephew are impossible to handle but I always tried to help in the past and now I just can't sit and watch while they run riot and disturb my newborn baby.

My sister has suggested a holiday together later in the summer, I had tentatively said yes but after today I cannot even begin to face the prospect.

I also feel bad about the fact that right now I cannot face having them come over again, the house is a tip and I am a nervous wreck, they literally just screamed and ran riot for four hours while my sister sat at the table drinking tea and occasionally asking them to play nicely.

What advice can anyone offer as to how to handle this situation? AibU to think that it would have been the right thing to get them to be a bit calmer around a newborn? Not to wake her in her pram etc.

I know I should have said more but I just don't know where to begin.

My brother has already pretty much cut her off because he finds her so impossible, I don't want to do anything of the sort but I feel I have let DD down today by not protecting her better.

I am finding new motherhood pretty hard going (obv!) and this is getting me really stressed.

Springdiva, I think she is partly in denial and partly just knows that when she tries to prevent them doing something or tells them No they either ignore/laugh at her which is embarrassing or they throw tantrums which is horrific.
I feel really bad just writing all this :(
It is why I have just gone along with it til now, I didn't have anyone else to think of except DH and he could obviously cope with the kids when he saw them even if he was fairly appalled by it every time.

The fourth trimester idea is lovely isn't it? I'm quite sad my dd is coming up 3 months old now. I might extend it to a fifth or sixth trimester

Agree that it will get easier as DD gets older as you'll have more sleep and better coping mechanisms. I'd try to get out of doing the holiday this year but maybe do it next year instead.

Poor DS. It's awful if your DCs misbehave and/or are rude in front of others. She could really do with some support, are there parenting classes nearby which someone could suggest to her as she won't want to hear that .

Welcome the the next few years of stress and gnashing of teeth and biting of the tongue. It's easy to ignore other people's 'spirited' children until you have your own PFB and you start to really judge the parenting of others.

Obviously if this is your first baby you are a bit shell-shocked, and still finding your feet, whereas she has three and has forgotten what it's like - this level of chaos around her is perfectly normal in her world. Be prepared for things that previously washed over you to now drive you to the bring of rage.

Do not, whatever you do, consider going on holiday with them if, as your DD gets a bit older, you suspect you have rather different ideas about how children should behave. It will be a disaster and it might take your relationship with your sister years to recover. Also, if she's the type to be completely oblivious to what they are doing or to make endless over-indulgent excuses for them, then you should brace yourself for when her youngest is 4, and your DD is toddling. I'm expecting snatching, pushing, refusing to share, dominating, manipulating, deviousness etc. And a few mortifying experiences in restaurants and soft play centres.

There is not much you can do about it, but I am just warning you now so you can get some ground rules and strategies in place in advance. Try to go to her house rather than have her at yours, or meet in public places where you are free to leave if things get too much.

And when you have a second or a third child and have been through a few challenging stages with your own DCs you will have a bit of perspective, and it won't seem quite so horrific!

Congrats on your new arrival! :)

Lots of good advice already. Your sister sounds like she isn't coping tbh. Having had 3 children of her own I'm v surprised she stayed for so long, let alone the mayhem her children were causing. Sounds like she doesn't know what to do and would benefit from some patenting classes. Does she get any support from DP?

Regardless, you have too much on your plate and other lovely things to focus on atm so don't let this cause you any more stress.

Congratulations!

I agree with the others, but also as an Aunt, I think it's okay for you to be a bit more vocal about telling of her kids. For eg, 2yr ignoring you (they're 2, so that's pretty standard!) It's okay for you to pick them up and deposit next to sister and say "No, X, we don't rock the baby's peak" if they have a tantrum that's not your issue.

I think I must live on another planet. They are your nephews, you are family, discipline them. Your house your rules, end of. If nothing else, later on they will find a safe haven in your home, sounds like they get no discipline from their mum, and children need discipline, boundaries as much as they need love. I grew up with 11 aunties and uncles, all close family, I learnt a lot from them growing up. None of them ever raised their voices at us, hit us or made us hate them. They treated us like their own flesh and blood, we were welcomed at any time in their homes( with so many relatives, we were an awful lot of us nephews and nieces, we used to descend on them like locusts) but we knew the boundaries, try and push it and you knew you were in trouble. We did a lot of mischief but there was always one of them to get us out of trouble.
With my own nieces and nephews I am pretty much the same. When they are together, my own kid melts into the same pot, I make no difference between them, I love them all dearly and treat them all like I treat my own. Including you go brush your teeth now, young lady, I am counting to three!!!( no idea what happens at 3, by the way).
What I am saying is, with extended families, I can't see how you wouldn't get involved, I can't see how you could give the sole responsability to the parents alone when they are in your home.
My own mother in law cried when I 'allowed' her to take DD shopping for a little dress that she saw in m&s. she was so happy and grateful she can chose a dress for her only granddaughter. I did look at her like she has lost her mind, never occured to me she can't. From there it took years before she understood I would back her up when she disciplined my daughter, all these 'little bits' make her relationship with her granddaughter, they have their own relationship, things they enjoy doing together. But if I let her feel that she can't have an imput because the kid was MY daughter, I don't see how they would have built their relationship.
Hope it makes sense.

I have 4 dc between the ages of 2 and 13. When I visit my brother and SIL, who have a quiet toddler and a new baby, they always suggest we all go out to the park...

Just to add to the other posters that I agree - i have 4 nephews and my sisters wouldn't be upset if I found it necessary to discipline them (stern look/no voice/explanation of why) - in fact sometimes they behave better for other people. Guess it depends on the relationship.

I agree with the posters who say you can discipline your nieces and nephews Especially in your own home and when it is concerning your baby.

You just need to be upfront and consistent with it.

YOu didn't fail your baby BTW,

wallace Dont feel bad! I have a kids who are 4 and 18m and I think the park is the best place for ALL children, being cooped up in a house is not much fun for anyone really, much better to romp about outdoors.

I'm not sure about this. I think you may be in for a shock when your pfb hits 2. Three children under six is very very hard work, maybe you could be a little bit more understanding.

I also think it's fine to discipline siblings kids. We all do this with each others. it's only an issue if I shout as one sister doesn't believe in shouting, whereas I think hers could do with being shouted at a bit more...

Oh my goodness, do not go on holiday with them under any circumstances whatsoever!

Meet at their house or at a public place.

Tell the DNs off if you need to.

Don't feel guilty about your DD. She will be fine :)

Don't feel guilty about the DNs. Right now you are shattered and should be focussing on getting yourself through this period in one piece. Let their parents take responsibility for them.

I agree with dilidali

Don't over react

Invite them over when the oldest 2 are at school / nursery maybe?

Don't make them out to be awful kids just yet? Your dd is going to want 3 cousins to play with in the future :-)

I have three children, 6 and 2yo twins, I feel that we are a hurricane when we visit other peoples houses, unless they have loads of kids too. However, we do discipline them and keep them in line, we just have a lot of them.

I agree, meet elsewhere at the moment, great as the weather is improving and your DD (congratulations) will enjoy being outside in a pushchair / sling etc. DO NOT GO ON HOLIDAY with them, or agree to go next year as you set up a pattern that will do your head in. Consider, if you find 4 hours tough, how will a whole week be with them in a confined space? A holiday is to relax esp with a newborn.

We had a similar problem with a spirited relation coming over, when he did I gave all the children 3 simple rules to follow (depends on your particular problems) but mine were not to jump on furniture, not to go into my bedroom and to tidy up the toys after use. I gave them these in front of their GP so there was no misunderstanding. If they broke the rules I would remind them and act accordingly or ask the GPs to sort it out. The last one is mainly because I didn't see why I had to manage another child that was effectively dumped on us and they should be disciplining him. It may be helpful once you feel up to them coming over, the older two should both be in school from Sept anyway so you could have visits from your sister and the younger one during the day in term time.

I think you have the right to control what goes on in your own house, and around your own baby. Your sister has no place bringing a rabble into your home and making things difficult for prolonged periods. You need to realise that this is within your jurisdiction.

Take a harder line straight away. Tell them 'baby is sleeping...if any of you wake her up, I will be very cross...do you understand?'...and be firm in your manner.
Communicate to them exactly what behaviour is expected in your home.

If your sister has a problem with that, then you need to have it out with her. The situation is just not working for you.

I also think that very naturally you feel that your little baby is so precious and fragile and the big cousins are like elephants trampling around her. I confidently predict that as your baby grows and gets mobile she will idealise these cousins and adore the mayhem when they come around.
Right now however the mayhem sounds ghastly and not what you need, so I would tactfully steer social outings away from your house. I wouldn't out too much energy now in your 4th trimester into trying to get through to your sister or change anyone's behaviour.

Neuteral ground is always good. My DC aren't particularly rowdy (no more than others anyway) but always a relief to take them to the park to blow off steam while we're visiting my SIL for example. She's lovely but has no kids of her own so her place isn't catered in any way for kids to hang out there and I'm always nervous about breakages/choking hazards/general looniness! Trip to the park to exercise the DC and the dog means everyone is happy and there is a better chance if them sitting down to dinner.

But as others have said, never be afraid to set a visiting child straight about unacceptable behaviour in your own home. It doesn't have to be made a big deal out of and if your sister cant deal with it that really is her issue. speaking of which I do feel sorry for her! It is a horrible feeling when you know you are losing control of your own children, especially when other people are witnessing it too!

My sil has children like this. We had a holiday with her once when she just had the eldest. It was absolute hell where her three year old hit my four year old and 15 month baby constantly, tried to wreck a cottage, a swimming pool, and threw decorative rocks at other children in the water. At our house, furniture was damaged. The child was totally out of control; sil did diddly squat to deal with him and ignored his behaviour. Fortunately she lives on another continent but when she visited with two more in tow a few years ago, I refused to have them here and didn't go on the family meet up because I would have been very direct.

Your sister's problem is not just in the here any now it relates to her attitude to parenting and respect for others at the root of her existence. She certainly needs parenting support and that's what I would focus on if I were you. Personally I wouldn't have them round - they are five on two when they come and as your dd gets bigger I doubt you will want their disruptive influence.

SIl and what happened on that trip drove a stake through my relationship with mil by the way. Perhaps I'd have felt differently if sil were my sister but then my mother would have called her our big time if that had been the case.

You haven't failed your child, and placing them in a loud, child manic environment is what EVERY second, third, fourth child goes home to every day.... so any upset/delayed settling after the visit was either a coincidence (you said you'd been up all night, so perhaps baby was overtired too) or baby picking up on your stress.

Your stress is understandable, if her kids need to burn off steam, then she needs to take them somewhere they can do that. If this situation arises, tell her to take them somewhere else to burn off steam (best you head off then and go to the park or something), or suggest you all go out together (not ideal if you're tired and with newborn) or ask her to stop past the park before your house, say that you're not up to dealing with energetic kids when your newborn is sapping all your energy, she remembers what it's like.

You need to make it clear to your sister that she is not being helpful by bringing over kids with pent up energy - she probably thinks she is doing you a favour, offering support in these newborn days, while your DH is at work.

Chin up, yours will be crawling and misbehaving soon enough!

it relates to her attitude to parenting, and respect for others at the root of her existence

You see, I agree with that.
It is not respectful to subject someone else's household to the whims of three undisciplined children, if you will not accept them being told off by another adult, without reacting defensively.

That is foisting your problem onto other people for hours at a time and expecting them to suck it up.

Sister or not, I wouldn't welcome a guest with that attitude.

I would add one thing. Your sister is an adult and surely should accept the consequences of her behaviour? So ring her today and say something along the lines of "You know that xyz piece of furniture was destroyed yesterday when your kids decided to "surf" on it. I'm just wondering what we can do about replacing it".
Or... "It's going to cost £x to replace it".
If the answer is "kids will be kids" then yours is that may be the case, but it doesn't mean that you and your DH should pay for their damage.

Thanks MN!
I had a decent ish night's sleep and feel a bit less wound up by it all this morning.
I still think I can't let it happen again for a while though. Neutral ground and outdoors (let's hope for a good summer!) will be a good solution I think.
Lucillebluth, I have been very very understanding of the problems of three kids under six for a long time!! I have babysat through mayhem, I have come up with as many (hopefully!) fun activities as possible, I have taken time away from work (am self employed o time really is money) to spend time with them to give my sister a break or a hand!
I just feel that right now I have a tiny newborn and I don't think it is too much to hope that my sister could have at least tried to stop them waking her... Even if a tantrum had been thrown I would have at least felt she was doing her best.