Helping DP paying off old debt

[KittenCamile]

Hi

I found out last year that DP owes £30,000 to his parents. The loan was taken against his house.

This loan was taken when he was married, he has since devoirced and kept the house (which was his and in his name) and got all of the debt.

So his parents are now talking about starting payments again (they stopped when he split with his ex as he couldn't afford the morgage, rent on a flat for him. Matinance and that).

We have been together 2 yrs and lived together 1. DP has no money, his expenditures meet his income, because of this I am the one currently saving so we can start ttc, I pay for food ect. THis I don't mind as I veiw it as a House hold income and when we have DC's that's how it should be. He sold the house but it made no money so none of the debt was paid off.

So my question is, AIBU to want to know who's debt it is (DP EXW was decleared banKrupt before they married) and what is was for?

Iam going to be the one paying it back as DP can't afford any extra outgoings. To me this is just an unbeliveble amount of money and I feel sick just thinking about it.

Will it make it worse if I actually end up paying for the big wedding the couldn't afford or the child they couldn't afford?

I don't see any other way, if his parents want the money back and he has none it is going to fall to me

Sorry about spelling, I'm dyslexic and on my phone (not that spell check helps as all the words look the same to me!)

As ever, EPIS has nailed it.

My god OP, this is a shit situation!

MIL is playing some sort of game with you all. DP is a weak and foolish man going by the debt and the way he is living now.

Do NOT pay £30k to MIL. Seriously. You would be a right idiot to do that.

How much will you be paying your sister-you must take that into consideration. If you are proposing that she has your child for over 50% of the working week and isn't paid, you will fall out about it.

I am not suggesting you don't have a child with this man or can't independently finance this. What I am suggesting is that paying off his £30K debt is unwise but as expat says its your decision and will only be you that gets hurt by it so go ahead.

You would be better off being independent. It's taking on the financial responsibility AND the debt which is daft

"Oh kitten, I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't start a family because of your DP's job or that has debts.

Its just that we are concerned about how the debts have arisen and that he has drip fed the details to you. We are jot emotionally involved, so its easier as an outsider to be cynical and see the pitfalls.

MN is the last place that would criticise or judge a woman planning on being the breadwinner and her DP doing the SAHP role."

Seriously? Have you actually read the comments on this thread? The general consensus is that both parties should be independently able to provide prior to procreating. This would disqualify maybe 70%+ of all parents in the UK.

The other thing that seems to be completely misunderstood (possibly from a little jealousy) is that family debt is completely different to bank or credit card debt. There is no contract and no mention of any interest to be paid. Often family debt is half gift anyway, with both parties being too embarrassed to mention that it is a gift, the receiver for (probably false) pride and the giver for not wanting the money refused. Personally, I think going to parents for money as an independent adult is morally weak, but nonetheless plenty do it and the money is real money.

OP, I do think you should be present at a family discussion. Your partner needs to explain to his parents where you are as a couple and potentially a family and explain that you both need to understand exactly where you stand financially before having a child. I hope they would be understanding of that.

Maybe he is a scrounger or a cocklodger (a term I find really objectionable and see no mention of cuntlodgers on MN, even though, in reality, they are far commoner). On the other hand, if he can renegotiate the debt away as part of his inheritance and genuinely wants to be a SAHP, what is the problem? I just don't see it.

To be fair, OP's DP told her about the 30k a year ago, at the same point they were moving in together. So it sounds as though he knew he had to be up front to her about the debt, although not so keen to take responsibility for it. (Also bearing in mind the 25k inheritance he has spent).

I don't think this is necessarily a LTB situation, but I'd strongly urge you to agree a clear financial plan going forward, with you, DP, his DM and exW all being transparent about expectations. Do this before TTC.

You still haven't said if he's ever made any repayments to his mum. Surely you want to know the extent of his responsibility towards money? If he is reluctant to repay the loan to his parents, and has this history of spending cash like water, I know that I'd want to know the full picture before considering bailing him out.

OP - something you are missing in this - people aren't concerned that your DP doesn't have a good job, that you earn more so to have the lifestyle you want you have to pay more towards it than 50/50 - that's normal and perfectly acceptable. It's ok to have DCs with someone where childcare costs will make it tight, again, lots of people do that.

What's raising the red flags are:

1. he hid this quite frankly massive debt from you
2. you are expected to fund paying it back - not taking responsibilty for it himself
3. in general, he seems to be leaving sorting out finances to other woman in his life (his mum, his exW, his current partner)

It shouldnt be you having to talk to MIL - the fact that he's just said "ok" and assumed you'll sort it for him, if you dont want to pay then you'll have to go to his mum and talk to her to sort it for him is a sign you'll be the one having to keep sorting out his shit for the rest of your life.

Passive is how he looks. All this advice about what you should and should not say to MIL is wrong - you should say nothing to her, he should be the one sorting this out, in a way that doesn't involve you supporting his exW (by you supporting your DP, so he can give money to MIL, so she can give it to exW).

Another thought, is he enjoying people thinking he's doing well for himself and letting his family and ex thing that all the stuff you are paying for is actually down to him? If so, that needs to stop, if he wants to play at being a wealthy man, that's fine, but not with your money.

I have to say, I agree with EPIS. I suspect you will be over in the Relationships forum next year-skint, unhappy and wondering why your life has turned to shit.

You seem to have spent hours working out how childcare for your unborn child will work but precisely 10 seconds thinking about the boy-child you are with who, along with his parents, see you as their future cash-cow. Is your biological clock ticking-why are you so desperate to procreate with him immediately?

Definitely don't do lt! He's onto a good thing, and it sounds as though he's somehow made you feel emotionally obliged to pay it.

I would run a mile from someone that expected me to do this for them!

It sounds from your timing like your CMs will be near to where you work? So you are planning on commuting 2 hours each way with the baby?

Ever heard of the saying Man plans, God Laughs (Well in your case Im changing it to woman plans and God Laughs and laughs until he falls over and breaks his leg)

You have no idea what you will feel like after you have had your baby. Even women that have 2 -3 dc forget this.
About the only thing you can plan for is that every thing you will plan to do after the baby is dependent on something/someone else.

Seriously it wont make 1 bit of difference all the brilliant plans you have of childcare,work, drop offs ,pick ups and everything. When you have a baby all those wonderful plans go out the window and frequently up the planners ass.

Virtually every women on here that has had a baby will agree with me that when they look back on their 1st pre -baby plans that they had on how their lives were not going to change, how they would go back to work, how their dp would share the night sleeps blah blah blah, think did I really really say that and cringe with embarrassment because they know the truth

You might not want to go back to work. You might resent having to work and be the main breadwinner and pay back a 30k debt that isn't even yours.

Then again you might not resent it. But you sure as hell will resent paying back 30k when your own dc have to go without nice things because your paying back a debt of 30k plus child care, paying all the bills, and well just life in general.

And if you really won't resent paying a 30k debt that isn't even yours then your a bloody saint and a far nicer person than 98 percent of the population and defiantly much nice than me and your dp should be kissing your feet every bloody night that he has a partner who is quite happy to pick up his bills

and to be fair to his mum if she can see that her son is going on holiday, enjoying nice things, thinking of having another child, even if it is you paying for it all then I can totally see why she wants her money back .
I would be feeling pretty shitty if i had lent someone that sort of money and they were still going on holiday enjoying their life while I' was waiting for my 30k back ( not that i would ever lend anyone that sort of money because i would have to kill them if i didn't get it back - i know my limitations of being nice )

IMO you have to work together to clear the debt. Unfortunately it is a joint problem, that as a couple, you need to resolve.The loan needs to be paid back and it needs to come from the household income

however

I do think you need to cover your back in case of an eventual split. I would get advice on how to do this so that in the case of a split (hopefully won't happen but you need to cover your back) this £30k debt that you have helped to pay back is taken into account when settling financial matters.

Get it all recorded in someway, to document this officially.

I have debt and that debt is MINE to pay. I would never expect my fiance to pay this and your partner shouldn't either! This debt would be paid from any extra money that i have left over.
Regardless of whether his mum needs this money back or not, she still loaned her son that money. Cutbacks should be made by him, this is not your debt to pay.

I think that you equate not paying his debts with not having a child.

The two are not dependant on the other you know.

Sorry I missed the question on whether he paid any of the amount back, yes he did, he orginally paid £300 a month and that lasted 7 months until his marriage ended and he moved out.

He told me a year ago, before we moved in together, tbh I didn't really know what to say and it has been a bone of contention since as I just can't belive how much money it is.

He isn't passive so much as ashamed I think, he doesn't talk about it or bring it up with him mum because then he has to admit he isn't a 'man'.

I don't think he really knows what happend, it just added up. He had no debt before he met his EXW and has acrued non since.

On the childcare situation yes I will pay my sister, she has asked for £200 a month. Which is totally do able. Yes any part of my situation could change but are you all compleatly surcure in your futures? I can't predict I can only plan for my imediate future.

I think you are right though DP does need to speak to his mum and take responsiblity for it.

I really can't do much at the moment about the matinance. Maybe he can agree on the debt and then go from there. If he cuts his matinance that could mean EXW might have to move etc, I just can't face all the back lash

and to be fair to his mum if she can see that her son is going on holiday, enjoying nice things, thinking of having another child, even if it is you paying for it all then I can totally see why she wants her money back .
I would be feeling pretty shitty if i had lent someone that sort of money and they were still going on holiday enjoying their life while I' was waiting for my 30k back

WSS

Though, presumably you still want to be going on the nice holidays...

So his moteer is paying the ex and has lent money for the house of the ex-W - now the new girlfriend is meant to pay off the mum's debt and by extension the ex wife.
How many women are supporting each other in this scenario due to one man who seems unable to sort his finances?

Will his next girlfriend support your future child? Will there end up a chain of people propping up your partner?

If your hormones have gone off and you really want a child I'd consider looking for a better father than the one you happen to be with right now. Just becuase he could be the dad of your planned child does not mean he should be.

Perhaps you, his mum, and the ex wife should live together - then you can all support each other financially and cut out the middle man.

I don't think he really knows what happened, it just added up He needs to get to the bottom of it . Easy to blame the ex but as he is barely covering his expenditure with you subbing food and so on, I'd wonder, if he hadn't just got used to a certain lifestyle. Those bills would only rise if you brought a dc into the equation.

I find this a bit hard, as at one point I was the one with the debt.
I did keep it a secret from my DH at first, and only let him know when we started talking about moving in together and how we would split finances. I wasn't hiding it, I was just too embarrassed and tbh, until we lived together he didn't need to know.

I am a bit confused about the "loan against the house" Either it was secured on the property, with a charge put on, or it wasn't - in which case it wasn't against the house.

It sounds like you have sat down and worked out your budgets.
I would go to MIL with HIS (not yours or joint) budget planner to show her that he earns X, pays out Y in travel and maintainence, and contributes Z to the household living expenses with you.
If, IF, there is anything left then it can be paid to her to start reducing the debt.

Please don't leave yourself short to pay for a debt that you didn't run up, and had been lent long before you were in the picture. If you do your figures as I suggest then YOU will be the ones paying for the treats and extras that you want, other than being the one who is having to sacrifice lifestyle choices to pay debt which you have no part of.

no, people think you shouldnt have a baby with this man, because you're likely to end up hideously in debt and because he has not been honest with you about what is a pretty obscene amount of money. If you had come on and said you made great money and met a lovely (honest)man who you want to be a sahd with not a penny to his name... nobody would flinch.

"He isn't passive so much as ashamed I think, he doesn't talk about it or bring it up with him mum because then he has to admit he isn't a 'man'."

If his shame was worth anything, he'd be ashamed that you were subsidising his ex wife's lifestyle and are thinking about subbing his mother too.

What's really unmanly is refusing to deal with this head on with his mother and instead hiding behind your earning power.

Tell him to get his finances sorted permanently with his mother and ex and then come back to you.

You should have no part of it.

Also, he needs to figure out what he spent £30K on.

What a pathetic no mark this guy is.

I would be worried that he has no idea what he managed to spend 30k on and if I'm not imagining it a further 25k inheritance

If he said to you Well honey I blew it on gambling and drugs in Las Vegas, or went travelling round the world for 2 -3 years then at least he has something to explain for where it all went

But just "Well i don't know what i spent it" on seem to be someone who is reckless or at the very least pretty stupid with money or rather other peoples money

I don't understand the maintenance to exW. Is it for her or is it child maintenance? 50/50 residency means noone pays maintenance to anyone. Even the CSA acknowledge this is correct now. Also if it is spousal maintenance the courts like a clean break so why wasn't she awarded a higher proportion of marital assets eg the house?

It all sounds bizarre, let alone the fact that his DM is paying the exW as well.

I'm also a bit baffled by the ex. I'm not divorced but I can't imagine any I'd my divorced friends get anywhere near £1k a month in maintenance and they all have 2/3 kids! Why doesn't he just go to the CSA? If it's her that caned all the money-why is she living the life of Riley? Does she work?

Ok so I have decided to leave this thread. I have had some great advice about how to handle this and can now start to think about a plan, what DP needs to do ect.

I'm not going to pay for anything and he is going to discuse the cause of action with his mum but I will be included in the conversation as I do the house hold buget.

I feel confident that I can ask who's debt it is and what it was spent on thanks to this thread. And can then make an educated decision from there.

I'm leaving because talking about a man you don't know in such derogitry terms is just not helpful.

I love him with all my heart, he is helpful, curtious, a man who spends all his spear time with his DD because he want to not because he is expected to. I want a family with him because it will be a great family built on people who love each other and deadicate time to each other, not because he has a good bank balance.

FWIW he never lied to me about the debt, he never ever told me he was debt free and easy and as soon as we were moving in together he told me everything.

As for the matinance that will be something we have to look at down the line. His mum will probably still keep paying EXW so she can contiune to see her GD. I agree that DP is paying too much and he would love to pay less but its just not that easy.

I did want to say thank you for bareing with me on the spelling and grammer front, its sometimes very hard for me to articulate myself through my dyslexia.

Thank you for the advice and your time and effort