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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be sick of the misogynist 'ding dong the witch is dead' stuff?

153 replies

sieglinde · 10/04/2013 11:27

Look, I didn't like her either, but the misogyny of some of the retweetings and facebookings of 'ding dong the witch is dead' are really annoying me.

FFS. She wasn't a witch, and if you lot are simpleminded enough to cast yourselves as a. munchkins or b. witchhunters, then you are bringing the left into disrepute.

Stop it. Stop it now.

OP posts:
Original poster
sieglinde · 12/04/2013 08:19

LAstmango said...Do you think Alexei Sayle's comment that she was the 'first of the personality disorder politicians' was distasteful? I think it was spot on.

Well, except for Oswald Mosley and Karl Lueger and Lenin and Stalin and Hitler and the whole Nazi hierarchy, yes, she was. Oh, and maybe both the Pitts. (Ponders.. Walsingham? Machiavelli? Domitian?)

The abuse is still ickily gender specific. In historical fact, men COULD be witches, but in 2013 the word is only applied to women. Why not use instead something celebrating the fall of a tyrant? The Ding Dong thing has a bullying, gleeful, and misogynist ring I really don't like. (It's also tasteless and puerile, and it's risking reminding people of the tastelessness and puerlity of 1980s Labour).

Just a reminder, since I was the OP - I do NOT like what Thatcher did.

OP posts:
Moominsarehippos · 12/04/2013 09:22

Can anyone remember if the was this reaction when she resigned? I can't really remember as I was working in the City at the time and got told off for sniggering.

Moominsarehippos · 12/04/2013 09:30

And I'm not sure that had anyone else been in power the outcome would be all that different.

The economy was shot, industry was on its knees from foreign competition that we couldn't fight against and the education system had been so messed around/experimented with its a wonder anyone from the 70s got a decent education. The unions were powerful and exercised their muscle too much. I remember jobs being bloody easy to get - leave school Friday, job Monday. Don't like a job? Resign then look for another one. This is the pattern on my older siblings. Then it got harder and people got pissed off. Add to this the rising fear of nuclear attack, and people got scared and pissed off.

As I get older I see politicians come and go. They promise short term wins with long term costs. They assume they won't still be in power when it comes time to pay for their actions. I think things are far far worse for business and families now.

Original poster
sieglinde · 12/04/2013 10:29

I remember her resignation as a source of glee for about 6 hours. Then it dawned on all academic women that people were being ridiculously misogynist. So exactly like now, really.

OP posts:
RollerCola · 12/04/2013 10:57

At first I felt it was all in very bad taste but then I decided that MT probably wouldn't have cared less what people thought about her and the fact that we're all still arguing about her shows just how important she really was. I can't see the same amount of fuss being made when John Major dies.

Original poster
sieglinde · 12/04/2013 11:10

Which is a pity, as Major was a GIANT TOOL who did just as many bad things as MT - closing the last pits, for example, and I well remember marching in the rain against the last closures, 400,000 of us.

OP posts:
pigletmania · 12/04/2013 11:21

It is uncalled for and unacceptable, she is hardly on par with Hitler who killed millions with his racist fascist ways. Why all the parties and protests now, they seem to have all come out of te woodwork. There have been prim ministers with good and bad policies before her and there are after her. it's all very sick, vile and in very bad taste. Disrespecting Thatchers family. Why don't those people do something positive in te community to Mae change, join a political party or one of your own and try and make changes yourself instead of resorting to vile bullying behaviour. Two special needs teachers were in the media inciting hatred and vile behaviour, I hope to god that this s not representative of all teachers ad none of tt teachers who work with dd asd beavers like that

Mabelface · 12/04/2013 11:24

Putting the "frail old lady" comments into context - awww, poor Saddam, he was just a frail old man living in a hole, poor hitler taking his own life, poor Pinochet (one of her bezzies) was a frail old man. I don't dance on graves, but I certainly won't be mourning that vile, vile woman.

Original poster
sieglinde · 12/04/2013 11:25

Rola, actually I remember Thatcher as moderately easily hurt. Just not willing to change to get people's good opinion.

OP posts:
LastMangoInParis · 12/04/2013 17:21

sieglinde I think Alexei Sayle was talking about Thatcher in relation to other twentieth century UK parliamentarians. Sorry I didn't describe his comment in enough detail for you to understand it fully. On which note, perhaps people haven't revived songs about the death of tyrants, because however awful as she was, Thatcher was not a tyrant. Her holding of office as PM was entirely legitimate and in keeping with democratic principles. I don't think anyone who has lived in a state ruled by a 'tyrant' would dream of describing Thatcher as that, however much they might despise her policies.
I agree that using the Ding Dong the Witch is Dead song is silly and pathetic, but I must say I think it's less so than it would be were people to try and pretend that Thatcher was a 'tyrant'. 'Tyrants' really exist. 'Witches' (in the sense of this song) don't. Therefore I'd say calling Thatcher the latter is a lot less offensive and ridiculous than calling her a tyrant.

fancyanother · 12/04/2013 17:41

Madizzy, she destroyed communities, yes, she contributed to the greedy, grabbing society we have today, she was no friend of the poor and disposessed- she didn't gas them in their millions or 'disappear' them. To put her victims in the same context as the victims of Hitler, Sadaam and Pinochet is not context, and minimises the gravity of what those men did.

LastMangoInParis · 12/04/2013 18:35

fancyanother I absolutely agree - drawing parallels between Thatcher and the mass murderers you name in your post is absurd and demonstrates a complete lack of awareness of basic principles of democracy and simple historical facts.

That said, I do find myself wondering when people say they 'admire her guts' (Thatcher's, I mean, and metaphorically, obviously). I mean you've gotta have some chutzpah to wield your illegitimate rule over several million subjects who hate your guts. So if you 'admire' Thatcher's guts, superstar.... Hmm

LastMangoInParis · 12/04/2013 18:38

Also, though, is it not perhaps slightly misogynistic to describe Thatcher as a 'tyrant'/compare her to real dictators? If she'd been a man, might people not have had a more realistic, intelligent respnse to her?

Grinkly · 12/04/2013 19:41

It's as if we didn't have 13years (I think it was ) of labour power. FFS.

The people bleating here aren't old enough (obviously from their comments) to remember much about her.

It is laughable in a way but quite scary too that people can be so easily led and confused.

Grinkly · 12/04/2013 19:44

But fortunately this is a blip of 'hatred' (ie people whingeing on fb) that will be forgotten in a month or so.

Dawndonna · 12/04/2013 20:16

Grinkly. I'm 54. I was a local councillor when she was pm. Stop bleating yourself. She was a rude, difficult divisive woman who did nothing for those that needed it and everything for those that didn't. Try reading some real articles, alternatively the Daily Fail site is thataway>

ChocolateCakePlease · 12/04/2013 20:22

I don't mind people having an opinion on her as long as they have actually taken the time to inform themselves of both sides and made their own decision on it. The amount of people who "hate" her and have been on about it this week and jumping on the bandwagon yet when asked why they hate her they say "Erm... well... she did close the mines didn't she?"

Original poster
sieglinde · 13/04/2013 19:30

Dawndonna, I stood as a local councillor but lost. Under Major, not Thatcher. It was a safe Tory ward with a deference vote.

And I still really hate the witch is dead stuff. In fact, I'm the OP.

OP posts:
Dawndonna · 13/04/2013 19:43

I can see you're the OP because I have you highlighted in green. Makes life easier for me.
I don't find any of it offensive, I do think different strokes for different folks and my opinion is she deserves it. But I'm capable of backing up my arguments and tend not, until pushed, to be rude and difficult.

amandine07 · 13/04/2013 20:12

OP you are most definitely NBU!

thermalsinapril · 13/04/2013 20:45

It's pretty cowardly to leave one's protesting until the person has died!

marjproops · 13/04/2013 21:15

just seen on sky news a party/demonatration in trafalgar square. im in disbelief.

whatever people think of her, one extreme to the other, its just sick. sick.

i am convinced half these people dont even know the story, its just another boozy britain excuse to party and get drunk on a saturday night.

and those that ARE the hate crowd, ffs, its putting her in the same pen as hitler/bin laden, i mentioned that earlier. i really dont get it. tbh i feel contempt big time about the current lot but not to the point of this.

CouscousForTea · 13/04/2013 22:39

I think that the tone of all this is depressingly misogynistic. It is like she can't be forgiven for being a woman but displaying so many traits that are considered to be masculine. I think it was only possible for to her to succeed because of her tough rhetoric and authoritarianism. Being hated by many was probably far less fatal to her election chances than being despised as a weak, indecisive woman.

Sadly I don't think we have really moved on. How many women do you see succeeding in politics at the moment? Given all this Ding Dong Witch stuff about Thatcher how much do you want to bet that if a women does make it to the top of British politics much of the criticism aimed at her will be throughly sexist in its nature? She will be criticised for not being a real woman but a bitch, a witch and a ball breaker who neglects her kids. Otherwise if she is a bit softer she will be called over emotional, indecisive and not committed to the job. Regardless of personality there will be endless snide comments that she is too fat, too thin, bad hair, wrong clothes, shrill voice. I can imagine it right now....

The fact is that people voted Thatcher in. Lots of them. Given that we are a democracy I think if she really was so awful then the ultimate responsibility lies with the voters of the 70s and 80s. So perhaps everyone needs to start dancing on the graves of their own parents and grandparents or at least go and ask them why they made the decisions so many of them obviously did.

marjproops · 13/04/2013 22:46

you could have a good point there couscous.

HoppinMad · 13/04/2013 23:26

Ive not really commented on MT or her demise as I was too young to remember her as prime minister, and I dont speak ill of the dead nor enjoy grave-dancing.

However since learning about her racist comments on Asians to the Aussie foreign minister I am hugely offended and really couldnt give a shit what anyone called her.