to be sick of the misogynist 'ding dong the witch is dead' stuff?

[sieglinde]

Look, I didn't like her either, but the misogyny of some of the retweetings and facebookings of 'ding dong the witch is dead' are really annoying me.

FFS. She wasn't a witch, and if you lot are simpleminded enough to cast yourselves as a. munchkins or b. witchhunters, then you are bringing the left into disrepute.

Stop it. Stop it now.

So the main oreoccupation for a woman at the too if her profession is to help other women up the ladder? Really?

Do men have to do that?

Oh dear.

I see all this. But I'm betting that most people singing 'ding dong' aren't making these subtle distinctions!

thebody - of course they bloody don't. They are already ON the effing ladder.

I would have respect for any kind of protest/memorial that didn't involve getting drunk, lighting fires or looting.

Looking back at all the 70s/80s footage on tv makes you realise what awful times they really were. Cold War? We really did think Russia was going to nuke us.

So the main oreoccupation for a woman at the too if her profession is to help other women up the ladder? Really?

Um, I never said that. For a woman at the top simply to refrain from making other women's lives harder would be enough.

Do men have to do that?

Yes, absolutely. Men and women at the top BOTH have a responsibility not to treat other women like shit.

As a professional woman and a mum, I have worked with colleagues (male and female) who are sympathetic to the particular needs of mothers (and fathers), and I have worked with colleagues (male and female) who are not. Believe me, it makes a big difference.

Another link, Hadley Freeman this time:
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-no-feminist

i don't think it would have entered mrs thatchers head to help women up the ladder because they are women. Don't think she was made that way.

Marifisis I too work full time and agree with your point re its nice to have a boss who understands the needs of family etc, to be fair to her in all the interviews with her staff maggie was described as a very kind and caring boss. Especially to the office staff.

I am not sure why there is particular bile to mrs T as I remember her well as doing much good snd much bad as did John major, tony Blaire and Gordon brown.

I think it's because she was a woman and that's so unfair.

Thanks for the link, Marfisa. Spot on.

thebody, she was made selfish and self-serving, I agree. And believe me, I loathe Major and Brown too.

thebody

That Russell Brand piece was pretty long - and pretty insightful in parts - and mentioned Thatcher's relationship with her children only in passing. The Guardian (for reasons best known to itself, but perhaps to attract the attention of people like yourself) decided to use that passing remark as the headline of the story.

Your post suggests you haven't even read it.

MT was a disgusting, contemptible woman who put her will above the needs of the citizens of this country. I rejoiced when she was ousted. I revelled in the fact that she was stabbed in the back by her own cabinet. I was delighted to see her tears as she left Downing Street.

Do I care that her death is being celebrated? Not a bit and TBH I think she would have disappointed were it not so. Her gender had nothing to do with it. Had she been a man, my community would still be celebrating. I don't do the DingDong thing because it would be an insult to witches.

The comments I have read here about Amanda Holden this week are misogynistic. The comments about Thatcher? Justified.

I think the witch song is very silly, but It is a counterpoint to the blanket news coverage about her (mainly state funded) funeral arrangements and reminiscences from every pundit going. You can't get away from it and it's just as weird and unpleasant as the ding dong thing.

The thing about "witch" is that the only thing that defines a witch is that she is post-menopausal (ie no longer "useful" for sexual or child bearing purposes), she is ugly, she doesn't have a partner and therefore, she is evil. There is no male equivalent of being damned just for your age, marital staus and looks.

You could say she lacked empathy, you could say she was inflexible, narrow minded or racist. You could say she destroyed the working class.

But shame on anyone who thinks "witch" is an acceptable insult. It insults what she was (and what we ALL will probably become), not what she did.

Agree with allagory... (How convenient, seeing as (s)he's posted last...), but
You could say she lacked empathy, you could say she was inflexible, narrow minded or racist. You could say she destroyed the working class.

well, exactly. And you could say all these things entirely truthfully.

But 'celebrating' her death is just pathetic. How does her having died of a stroke, ancient and frail, represent any victory for anyone? And why celebrate when the current government represents and carries on everything she created?

Thank you for this thread op. I have been ashamed by the lack of grace shown at at time of mourning for her family and friends. Celebrating her death - why? When she lost power, yes, absolutely. When she was powerless and no longer in the public eye? Yuk.

YANBU. I am not a fan but I think that those who are rising to it are not doing the left any favours. Dignified respect. I mean I didn't agree with Gadaffi but I still got very upset when I saw the footage of his murder. Two wrongs don't make a right etc. (pardon the pun!)

I am being serious. Very distasteful and shameful I speak as a lefty. I still respect her guts and belief though.

not doing the left any favours
Exactly... but probably more because to treat the natural death of a very frail, elderly woman who was out of office for more than 20 years as some kind of 'victory' reeeks of apathy, more than anything else.

Distasteful? Maybe, but I don't think that's such a problem.

Do you think Alexei Sayle's comment that she was the 'first of the personality disorder politicians' was distasteful? I think it was spot on.

(So 'guts and belief' - nah. Personality disorder. Probably.)

I don't just think calling someone a witch is mysognistic; I just think it's tasteless. I am a real lefty. I am not a Tory, however, I do have some respect for the deadI don't agree with her BUT I do admire her guts.

I think it's another excuse for people to have something to protest against. Whether or not we should be beavering away at our own entrepenuerial ideas is debatable (having worked with people who have watched their businesses fail in the recession) but hey ho......lets face it...Thatcherism hasn't succeeded but we should't lower our moral standards. Lets rise above it.

another excuse for people to have something to protest against

There is more than enough to protest against. The current government doesn't provide much , but it certainly provides reaasons to protest.
Why then would people choose to 'protest' about the death from old age of a very, very elderly woman (albeit one who, with the help of her party, several million voters, and most of all Mr Rupert Murdoch, managed to destroy much of what was good about this small country)?
I think 'celebrating' Thatcher's death allows people who are otherwise apathetic and a-political to feel that they are subversive. Meh.

Should the word witch now be banned?

I don't think thatt witch IS an isnsult; being a wich is surely a complement?????!!!! I think that there is nothing wrong with being a witch; I just don't think that Thatcher was remotely interested in witchcraft or any other alternative lifesyle in our society. 'Yey capitalism' was her moto. I don't like her policies but can't help admiring her guts.

whitch

Oh god how do I spell it???? WITCH???? lets be proud of thet 'INSULT'

according to 'the feminist guide to thatcher's death' ding dong is ok cause it's referring to the wicked witch, but the bitch is dead is not.

As it happens I live in Brixton and went to the party for a little while. I'm not really into grave dancing but as it's on my way home...

A lot of people had their lives and communities destroyed by her policies, and a lot of people are suffering from the legacy of thatcherism. The people eulogising her have no respect for that. I knew a couple of people there and had a beer and a chat. It was more interesting that going home to dishwashing.

The Barnardos thing seems to have been very ill-thought out. Apparently it was claimed by indymedia because Barnardos are involved in immigrant detention centres.

They should have gone for Foxtons instead. There is a lot of bad feeling towards their recent arrival, the pricing out of the area for residents this symbolises, and their odious business practices.

I suspect, later on especially, there would have been some young idiots there for the lols rather than any political conviction or personal grudge against Thatcher. Certainly I've heard at least one account of a couple of Hoxtonites along for the ironic ride.

The evening was by all accounts mostly good natured with a very light hand from the police until it was time for dispersal and, funnily enough, the drunken crown failed to disperse in an orderly manner, and in some cases got rowdy and attempted to block the road.

Anyway, I guess this is the nearest you're going to get to an eyewitness account without the twist of media editorial.

Fear not, I am not a teacher, your kids are safe.