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AIBU?

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Original poster

The Philpotts: to think this says a lot about the morality of this country?

153 replies

SlowlyWakingUp · 03/04/2013 00:44

Why was this 'getup' allowed to happen? Everyone knew about it, why was it normalised? It seems to have been all nudge, nudge, wink, wink, that's just 'Mick'. A man with 'needs'. Why were social services not involved? They were all over the TV long before the fire with him being aggressive and f'ing and blinding in front of the DCs on camera, dread to think what he like off camera. I bet he was an absolute bastard.

Why was he allowed to live with children after his earlier conviction for attempted murder and the domestic violence he perpetrated to his 2nd 'wifelet' who left before he got involved with Mairaid? Lisa Willis was their pregnant bridesmaid (with HIS baby) at their wedding. In the TV interview she said she did not 'like the wedding night' because she was 'ready to drop' that brings up all kinds of dreadful connotations. People must have known about this. Did they pat him on the back, turn a blind eye? Why did the neighbours not get involved? The school? Just the overcrowded, chaotic household would surely have been enough to ring alarm bells? When Lisa Willis left him a few months before the fire, she got a restraining order so she must have been alleged DV, why were the DCs left behind not checked up on?

I dread to think of the things they must have seen what with other men coming in to have sex with the 'mother', threesomes, booze and weed, the rocking caravan parked out front. I am sure they were aware of what was going on. How could anyone have thought this was 'OK'.

Why, why, why was this evil sexist pig of a 'man' allowed to carry on doing what he liked without being properly challenged (and I don't mean by JK or Anne Widdecombe)? It was a car crash waiting to happen and no one stepped in, just judged him for being a scumbag, the women for being stupid enough to accept it, without taking into account the most important factor, those poor DCs.

I KNOW ultimately the 3 who were found guilty today we were responsible but what about the responsibility of the community and the government agencies to say 'hey, you cannot bring children up in that environment'. Not just to turn a blind eye until an absolute tragedy like this happens. Sorry, it just sickens me that this went on and that similar scenarios are being played out everyday all over the UK.

OP posts:
TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 11:56

If anybody at SS had bothered to check up on the Philpotts after all their publicity due to their twisted setup

If you'd read all the replies then surely you clocked the ones about the OTT workload SW already have & how they can only go on hard evidence, weird family set up is not enough. Concerns have to be made known by schools/family/friends etc.

Bunbaker · 03/04/2013 11:57

Have some friends who live in Derby. Apparently this family were already infamous before all this happened and they were the talk of the town.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:01

It is bad he got away with so much but a lot of it occurred due to flaws in the system & because they were another class of messed up that is not common, despite what the DM would have you believe.

It's depressing that so many people think this case means you can tar all the poor with the same brush. That attitude is far more concerning than some monester-under-the-bed that the DM has decided to scare monger the nation with.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:02

Yes, but infamous for what?

Child abuse or just being a big family on benefits?

The mm worked by the way so the DM got that wrong too though they still relied mostly on benefits.

AThingInYourLife · 03/04/2013 12:09

The thing that bugs me, TheOrchard, now that I've finally twigged what some people were getting at with "these people" is that there really are monsters "under the bed".

But if we're going to waste our time shouting about benefit "scroungers", we're going to leave them where they are and their victims with them.

Mick Philpott was not a one off.

His defining characteristic was his abusiveness.

Not that he claimed benefits.

I regularly have my mind blown by the new depths to which benefit bashing has sunk but I can barely cope with the idea that people are trying to blame the actions of a dangerously abusive sociopath on the welfare state.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:16

I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly & know what you're getting at.

They are out there. My mum's an SW and it's disgusting to know what really lies beneath the surface of society. The worst case I was ever told about was in a middle class family (they had a 13 year old daughter with a learning disability, who was passed around the family for sex & had been raped from such a young age and no one had realized as she couldn't speak up for herself & they were very careful to hide it).

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:17

^ Though I think class has nothing to do with it and neither does benefits.

Bunbaker · 03/04/2013 12:17

"Yes, but infamous for what?"

I don't know, but they were well known and much talked about.

Original poster
SlowlyWakingUp · 03/04/2013 12:20

I just think that this bloke was already a violent criminal who had done time for attempted murder. The police had been called to the house due to domestic disturbances. A quick check would have made them aware of his history. That alone should have warranted SS investigation into the family.

OP posts:
Original poster
SlowlyWakingUp · 03/04/2013 12:23

I should imagine his conviction was the reason he could'nt work but he was OK to have children Hmm.

OP posts:
TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:27

this says a lot about him as an abusive man

Mumsyblouse · 03/04/2013 12:28

Plenty of men have previous convictions for violence sadly, and also go on to father children after being released/between jail sentences. There's no law against people fathering children and your children don't get taken away for having a dad with a criminal history, unless they are paedophiles or actively abusive/neglectful at that time point.

cantspel · 03/04/2013 12:30

Benefits do come into play in this case as the case against them was they set the fire to frame his ex because of the custody battle due to start ( court case set for the following day) for the 5 children and the £1000 per month benefits that came with them.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:31

My dad beat seven shades of shit out of my mum for years and I'm fairly certain that he's gone on to have more and that his new partner hasn't a clue. (This was all years ago & I have no memory of it but many incidents were reported and yet no one can inform his OH, even if they have kids together. That thought has always haunted me a little & I hope to god he's not ruined anyone else life).

Sorry to put a dampener on things, I just think the system is strangely flawed in that respect.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:32

^ it was about the money but the control too. He couldn't stand to be 'left'. He had to get her back and one up her for standing up to him.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:32

*else's

chicaguapa · 03/04/2013 12:35

But upper and middle-class men in monogamous relationships kill their wives and children, too. This is not about class, or being on benefits, or about having an unusual family setup. It's about one extremely dangerous, violent, psychopathic man preying on vulnerable women and treating his children as disposable objects.

This.

TheOrchardKeeper · 03/04/2013 12:37

In the article I just linked someone said he was eerily expressionless when he went to visit the bodies. No emotion to the point of being creepy is not a good sign really is it

cantspel · 03/04/2013 12:38

He clearly used money as control. He did not only lose the children when the ex left but half his income went with them. Would he have dont this if to try to frame his ex if he only want the children?
I dont think so as he had a total of 17 children so clearly others didn't live with him. His ex broke his control both of the family and the money and he plotted the fire to regain that control.

SolidGoldBrass · 03/04/2013 16:24

Also, bear in mind that the manslaughter convictions are correct because the intention was to 'rescue' those children, not for them to die (though Philpott, being a sociopath, probably wasn't too bothered either way, the children weren't ever people to him, just props to his ego and objects he could use). His wife is more likely to have believed in the 'rescue' plan and gone along with the idea that Philpott would be transformed into a Hero Father Saving Babies From The Blaze.

Another thing that might be worth considering is that Philpott was a soldier at one point. I have a feeling that statistics show military men have a higher likelihood of abusing their families than civilians do - whether this is down to PTSD or whether it's down to the fact that violent men with big egos are drawn to the military, I don't know.

Bunbaker · 03/04/2013 17:32

"whether this is down to PTSD or whether it's down to the fact that violent men with big egos are drawn to the military, I don't know."

Or perhaps being in the army has made them more immune to the effects of violence?

marjproops · 03/04/2013 18:23

the photo of the children might 'appear' well, but no one would take a photo of their children dirty/unkempt, would they?

But i suppose they must have been clean and stuff otherwise teachers and others would have noticed?

just dont get it.

and if hed been given a bigger house hed just have breeded more children and so it goes on and on.......

(sorry if anyone else might have said this, only got to page 2 and was wound up!)

marjproops · 03/04/2013 18:26

orchard thats horrible what happened in your family im so sorry to hear that, and about that case of the 15 years old.

saintmerryweather · 03/04/2013 20:02

Breeding? They were children not dogs

LapsusLinguae · 03/04/2013 20:36

OP - YANBU.

As a society we need to take VAWG (Violence Against Women & Girls) seriously.

I think his release from prison (after attempted murder of his gf and her mother) should have been conditional on him not living with a woman in future.

Have other's heard of Clare's Law?

Anyone reading this who has suspicions about a partner please look into Clare's law.

I also think that finanical abuse should be more widely understood and talked about. This is often as more easily visible aspect of abuse.

I think that after a call out re DV the police can ban the perp from the house for a certain time and call in services to help the victim. Does anyone know more about this?

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