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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To start a benefits "myth busting" thread so that I can link the thickos of Facebook to it

491 replies

MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/04/2013 15:33

When they start moaning about how people on benefits can afford diamond shoes and other such items.

I'll start.

  1. Housing benefit is mostly paid out to WORKING people. So all of this talk of going out and getting a job and buying their own home if they don't like the bedroom tax is a flawed argument.
OP posts:
Original poster
MarmaladeTwatkins · 02/04/2013 19:00

"Still, it doesnt get around the fact that I have a fair amount of money to spend and no one wants to do the work. It doesnt of course fit into your argument that there are no jobs and people are desperate to work.

I want some building work done. Its not weeding my garden"

LOLWUT??!!

So you are equating people, who are in employment, with the shysters that you worry about claiming dole? Confused They have work. They are presumably doing other jobs. If they are self-employed, they won't be claiming dole to subsidise themselves on the weeks that they cba to take any work on! They just don't like the cut of your jib and don't want to do your extension or whatever. They aren't legally obliged to.

I understand it's frustrating when builders won't answer you calls, I've had it about three hundred times in the last 4 years. I don't think that they're workshy, though. They just don't want to take on that particular job and don't have to. Presumably they are getting enough work in to be able to pick and choose.

OP posts:
maisiejoe123 · 02/04/2013 19:00

No, but we do need to respect each other. If you dont agree with something that your children's teacher has done what will you do, swear at them? If you go into a shop and they wont do what you want them to do, do you rant and rave and swear.

I have a view, it might not be your view but where have I said that you are wrong and I am right. I have cited a view examples and its been indicated my illness is stupidity! I have also been accused of making them up because they dont fit your argument!

And if this country is that bad, if you really think its going down the drain and you arent getting what you feel you need. There is the rest of Europe to choose from.

MurderOfGoths · 02/04/2013 19:00

Was that at me Randall? I was pointing out that sometimes it is down to luck whether you are unemployed or not. As maisie seems to believe it plays no part.

maisiejoe123 · 02/04/2013 19:01

So, my point is that there are jobs, you have had it too. Thankfully not just me!

cleoowen · 02/04/2013 19:02

All I know is we cannot borrow as much as we would like on our mortgage as they will not take my wage into account as I am not self employed and I am not on a contract with a fixed wage. But apparently if I was claiming benefits long term (currently getting SMA) then that's fine!

Totally the wrong way round. Says alot about our society.

So, from my experience people on benefits can move house and get a mortgage when I can't because I want to go back to work.

WestieMamma · 02/04/2013 19:02

Still, it doesnt get around the fact that I have a fair amount of money to spend and no one wants to do the work. It doesnt of course fit into your argument that there are no jobs and people are desperate to work.

I want some building work done. Its not weeding my garden!

And what has George Orwell got to do with anything!

Can someone please explain how despite calling two companies no one is interested in it! They havent even seen the work involved or quoted for it. They just have bothered to reply!

Eh? The people who haven't got back to you are working, not unemployed people who don't want to work. How on earth do you extrapolate from that, that there are jobs around for unemployed people desperate to work? Confused Do you really want an unemployed accountant/bus driver/checkout operator/hairdresser/etc doing your extension rather than waiting for a qualified, skilled tradesman? Confused

FasterStronger · 02/04/2013 19:03

glossy - The ones fleeing torture are not illegal immigrants but refugees if the system was perfect, all people fleeing torture would be recognised as refugees, but it isn't, so they aren't.

the law is a blunt instrument.

what is this fraud that all illegal immigrants are committing?

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/04/2013 19:03

I can't quite muster up enough pixie dust to respect someone who cannot be bothered to stop derailing a thread and trying to turn it into yet another benefit bashing thread and cannot be bothered to start her own.

JakeBullet · 02/04/2013 19:04

I am on benefits.

I don't get free water
I don't get free utilities

People fought for disability benefits to support the most vulnerable in society. I claim them to support my son who is autistic.

I don't get anything "free", I worked and paid into the system for 30 years and will continue to work and pay in as soon as I am able to once more.

While in work I did not once begrudge supporting people who needed it...those on benefits. Likewise I don't expect anyone to begrudge me (or anyone else) the support we now need.

Sadly there is a lot of blaming going on here...you are in cloud cuckoo land if you honestly believe you can go through life with the bad stuff never happening to you. Hopefully it wont but it might.....and it is hard, believe me because I am living it.

ZebraOwl · 02/04/2013 19:04

MurderOfGoths

Well, you never know... Grin

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter · 02/04/2013 19:04

Cleo People who are self-employed find it very hard to get mortgages, especially at the moment. Not sure about those in receipt of benefits, but as far as I know banks aren't exactly queuing up to lend money to those on £71 a week JSA.

maisiejoe123 · 02/04/2013 19:05

Have I been lucky. Well, I think I have, but surely not my whole working life (35 years plus!). I have had to move house to go where the jobs are, I would live abroad if I needed to. I know someone wouldnt. My DH moved to the UK to get a teaching position many many years ago because the UK were short of teachers.

FreshLeticia · 02/04/2013 19:05

The ones who have flat screen TVs and Iphones are defrauding the benefits system because they are either earning cash in hand on the side or selling drugs. Plenty of those in rural Wales, where rich incomers want a man to cut the lawn and paint the house and there is a thriving community of weed growers in remote cottages. I know, I used to be married to one. He still doesn't work and I had to miss their early years to study for a first class degree so that I could get a good job and bring up our kids.
Real, ordinary, honest people struggle on benefits. I did when I was a single parent student.
The fucker has a TV the size of his house wall.

twofingerstoGideon · 02/04/2013 19:05

So, from my experience people on benefits can move house and get a mortgage when I can't because I want to go back to work.

Yes, all those mortgage lenders are just queueing up to give mortgages to benefit claimants...

MurderOfGoths · 02/04/2013 19:07

maisie The point is there are very few jobs. And a lot of jobseekers.

Say there are 3 job positions available in a town. (nb. I am exagerrating obviously)

And there are 30 jobseekers in that town, let's pretend all 30 have similar qualifications/experience/motivation.

Can you see any way at all in which those 3 jobs could provide work for 30 people? And what do you think will be a deciding factor in which of those 30 candidates get the job? Would you say the other 27 didn't try hard enough or would you say luck played a part?

Theicingontop · 02/04/2013 19:07

It's very easy to insist that there's nothing wrong with this country that a few harsh policies won't solve, when you're sitting in a comfortable position away from the consequences of these policies.

David Cameron does not care for poor or vulnerable people. You are not poor, or vulnerable. (I am speculating that you are not poor, or at least not on the breadline, to be able to feel frustrated at builders not returning your calls for work you want carried out, forgive me if I'm wrong)

The fact that you see nothing wrong with the measures the government are taking to 'restore the economy' is neither here nor there. The fact is, lives are being destroyed. Families are being driven to breaking point. The outlook is very bleak for some people. Those are the facts.

MurderOfGoths · 02/04/2013 19:07

"from my experience people on benefits can move house and get a mortgage"

Except they can't. At all.

IneedAsockamnesty · 02/04/2013 19:07

Just because your ex is a drug dealer does not mean everyone with a iPhone is also.

The two things are not mutually exclusive

amidaiwish · 02/04/2013 19:08

imo there are two big areas they need to look at but they don't seem to be:

WTC - why should people working FT need their wages topping up to a minimum level to live? These companies should be forced to pay a higher, agreed living wage. Why are we subsidising Tesco etc to pay their workers an insufficient amount to live?

Public sector pensions - goldplated, unbelievably generous vs private sector. The tax payer is funding these when we can't put anywhere close to enough in our own private sector pensions.

The bedroom tax - i get it a bit, social housing has to be more fluid, people moving in and out according to their needs/family size, as we all do in the private sector BUT it's hardly fair if there are not the smaller units available to move into!

RandallPinkFloyd · 02/04/2013 19:10

Not at all MoG, I was mocking our maisie's terribly in depth study of her local economy!

JakeBullet · 02/04/2013 19:10

Hate these benefit bashing threads.

I never expected to need benefits

I have a relative who needs kidney dialysis...no job now after a lifetime of employment. On top of that is wife has been diagnosed with a neurological condition which will kill her within 10 years. She is now out of work too....on medical grounds. Neither of them expected to need benefits and yet here they are....struggling. Their house will have to be sold and then they are at the mercy of the system which is going to judge them......for being on benefits.

float62 · 02/04/2013 19:11

Can't we start having a poke at the unsustainable public sector pensions and all the other tax payer funded benefits they get now. Now there's a bunch of bloody scroungers .

FreshLeticia · 02/04/2013 19:11

In-comers, as in rich people moving to the country. They do bring employment, but want it cheap, hence the cash in hand.
I was lucky enough to get a good job and keep it. I'm thankful for the benefit system because Otherwise I could not have gone back to Uni 16 years ago.

It makes me furious how he has managed to circumvent the benefits system for years and is now past retirement age so not subject to this any more. He gets his mortgage interest paid still and has a four bedroom house.

twofingerstoGideon · 02/04/2013 19:11

Public sector pensions - goldplated, unbelievably generous vs private sector. The tax payer is funding these when we can't put anywhere close to enough in our own private sector pensions.
Why would you want to drag public sector pensions DOWN to a level that you think is inadequate? Why aspire to race to the bottom?
You do realise that many public sector workers earn very low salaries and will have nothing like a 'gold-plated' pension?

MurderOfGoths · 02/04/2013 19:12

Ah, it seems I've started to skim read certain posts. Sorry Randall, thought it was out of character for you! Grin

Think I should step away as I can feel my eyes glazing over with this thread Confused