...to wish retailers would just look out the fecking window?

[somewherewest]

...inspired by our local branch of Jojo Maman Tres Expensif*, which is chocca with sunhats and swimwear despite the fact its fecking -5 outside. Seriously? There were icicles overhanging their beachwear window display last week.

*I realise this immediately discloses the fact that we're not in Toxteth or Brixton

It's the same in Australia - as soon as the dictated season change occurs, the next season's clothes are in stock. We've just had an unseasonably hot week for the time of year but the shops are mostly full of autumn knitwear (and still some summer stock on sale, thank goodness!)

I particularly don't understand this in relation to small children who grow so fast - I want to be able to buy what I need for my baby at the time I need it, not 3m in advance when I'm not entirely sure how much he'll have grown by when I need the clothes (if you can follow my logic).

YANBU. It's very silly. And akin to stocking hot cross buns the week after Christmas is over.

it's really peeing me off. I lost weight on ml in order to get back into my work clothes. Went a bit further, and work trousers now like clown pants, looped up with a belt. I have been trying to buy new ones since I returned to work in Jan, but nothing is in shops!

The heat wave was just a week but as you can see the March weather historically is getting warmer. www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/actualmonthly/3/Tmax/UK.gif so if you were using a weather prediction system based on these statistics next year would be based on the most recent years curve.

Research I have read has also told us that customers make a coat purchase decision in Sept/Oct and won't be likely to invest ?100 euros in something that they will now get 8-9 weeks wear from before putting it away for September.

Personally I have seen lots of long sleeved tops in Gap, I haven't checked out Marks's but I imagine they, and other more classic retailers would invest more in a transition "wear now" range, as opposed to the High Fashion end of the market who base their collections on catwalk trends that have little to do with practicality.

wally thanks for your posts, they have been really informative. It is good to hear retail logistics information based on insider knowledge.

I can't understand why basics aren't available all year around, as they don't date very much. I am thinking classic designs, simple styles, like plain jumpers, plain wool coats, slippers, wellingtons, plain t-shirts with different sleeve lengths, basic swimsuits and so on. This is probably what Marks ought to be aiming for as one of its ranges.

No problem Greenhill. It's also interesting for me to listen to customers, even if mine aren't really UK any more.

There is a huge difference in profile between a UK customer and say a German one, who shops very traditionally and therefore drives a different retail range.

I think our volatile UK weather also has a lot to do with it. it's the same argument with salt on the roads, snow closing everything, and airport delays. The weather is so changeable and radical there aren't the resources to plan for all eventualities, in government, retail and many other aspects.

Incidentally I set up a "Never Out of stock" range when I took over this side of the company I'm on. We started with a clean sheet, listing all the basic product out customer feedback told us they'd want. Black, grey, white etc.

When we added up the styles we were x2 over budget! And there would have been no room in store to repeat best sellers, add seasonal colours etc. Who would really shop a store full of black and grey jersey? It would look hideous.

The problem is, one poster on here saying they want a basic long sleeve tee would imagine a very different basic log sleeve tee to another. Ribbed, jersey, lycra, round neck, boat neck, v neck, fitted, loose, thick, thin. If you onlyhave room for 4 styles of basic in that category how do you make each customer happy?

Anyhow we planned 50% of our "buy" on this NOOS range. Two years later I am selling about 10% of the original range. The performance just didn't earn a continuity place. Worst performing was the kids range of grey, black and navy sweatpants. Safe as hell, based on our best selling shape. We kept them all year round with a realistic sales plan (2 in every store, every week) and only managed to achieve 45% of that plan.

Our best selling kids product is a powder blue jogging suit at the moment.

White Company sell basics all year round - wonder how that works?

Not very well judging by their outlet stores who sell the same product in volume,mas their full price and online sites, in the same season.

They aren't basic to the average customer either. Not with an average selling price of £45 for a long sleeve tee.

I live in the middle east and here there are a lot of Uk and international chain stores. I have the opposite problem where I am trying to find a T-shirt and shorts as its 45degreesC outside and all there is available is long sleeved tops and shirts, jumpers and european winter weight trousers. I do understand that they are tied to the same constraints as the UK stores with their stock all being produced at a specified time but surely someone high enough up to actually make a decision can surely specify they keep some clothes suitable for hot weather.

Oh and while I'm having a rant, the prices we are charged are obscene. I saw in Mothercare a T-shirt marked full price at 9pounds, now reduced to 7.50. Was going to buy it till I saw the UK sticker showing it as 2.50! They are normally very hot on removing the uk prices - can see why. Could have got my mum to buy it and post it out for less.

Minesa, but keeping stock would cost warehousing space, mean other stock would be bumped out of stores etc etc. over-ordering in case weather was better or worse than expected. All of which add cost.

Your mothercare top may well have been air freighted amd may be sold under license, depending on their presence in your market. How much would postage alone be for your mum?

TheDoctrine the weather here doesn't really get colder than low 20's so keeping "summer clothes" in stock would always be a winner. Even if there was a cold spell it would only be a few weeks rather than there being a period of 6 months where most of the clothes are completely unsuitable. I do get that the stores just get the same as their other stores as that is what is produced for them.

Ok slight exageration about being cheaper for my mum to post it but even considering air freight 200% is a ridiculous mark up. Its not all that much of a mark up but a recent shopping trip failed to find a young boys t -shirt for less than a tenner and most nearer to the 15 mark. This was Mothercare, Next, M & S and Debenhams. We're not all on great expat packages.

Sure, but mothercare's target market where you are probably is different to its UK focus.

The Middle East Mothercare stores are franchises,, and may have an element of choice about pricing and stock selection.

LongFuFu, Khaleese and WallyBanters, is slow steaming adding a lot to lead times?

Tell me about it-we are in Scotland, we get a few sunny days in May and that's us. We need jackets and wellies and woolly little girls tights and umbrellas all year round .It is a nightmare trying to stock up months in advance and guess what will fit your children.

Anyone ever tried going abroad in the October holidays? I benefited by getting a load of summer clothes in the sales in July but had to just hope they would fit the dc's in October and hope that feet didn't grow. (snowboots on the beach isn't a great look)

Just add cap sleeves are not flattering to arms that aren't rock hard strings of muscle, the make normal arms look awful never mind arms with the potential of getting a muffin top.

Ok, I get the warehouse space argument. But where the bloody hell do you think I am going to keep all the bloody summer stuff if I bought it now?? I don't have a warehouse, I have a wardrobe. not designed for multi-season. Hence, I buy less clothes as I have less choice...

BoffinMum, www.landsend.co.uk/ more or less folliw a year-round basics model. By and large better quality than the flimsy jersey I've had from TWC. However, Lands' End is a catalogue-only retailer.

Harping on about the overseas long lead times and factory runs As the weather is so unpredictable in the uk you are guessing half the time so therefore you are left with loads of sale stock which must add to the costs. As less profit is made also understocking on the more popular stock. Therefore if you have a shorter lead time you can be more reactive to prevailing climate and trends therefore less wastage, less transport cost less risk of piracy falling in the docks etc.
so surely with the rising labour cost in India , china etc it should be better for the customer and profit margins to source in at least Europe.

Also decathlon is great all year round for t shirts jumpers long sleeved layers sandals and snow boots.
Due to me shopping like a bloke ie when it's needed that shop has got me out of lots of seasonal holes

Whoever asked about where people are buying online.

I buy a lot from specifically online retailers. I use Muddy Puddles a lot for things for the DCs. Pure, Wrap, Boden - I know they have a couple of shops but they are mostly online.

Increasingly though I find that what I buy for myself is a lot of what would be called 'transitional' items. Layering vests and tops, scarves, cardigans etc. Long sleeved cotton tops.
I buy very few specifically summer clothes, because they get so little wear. So it seems bonkers to me that they are in the shops for so long.

Used to buy from White Company but the quality is increasingly rubbish. Ditto FatFace.

It takes very little time to knit mittens for a small child or in an emergency use socks

It would take me a life time to knit a mitten never mind two that MSG he'd in size and shape.

Socks are the best I have used socks in the past and was very pleased with my ingenuity

That matched in size and shape

How did the iPod get MSG for gods sake

The lead times I have been given for Turkey and Romania this year are only 4 weeks shorter than the Far East and the MOQ's are pretty high. This does not enable me to react very quickly to trends in season. Add to this a pretty big increase in margin and that capacities there are also pretty rammed in Europe too. Most customers would not be happy to pay the extra costs retailers would pass on for this flexibility. They also have shareholders to support (including pension investments etc).

Slow steaming isn't a problem for me, what I've faced in the past when I've worked for mid size retailers is the issue of container priorities at the dock side, and container stuffing to reduce costs adds delays and leaves small firms at the back of the queue with the dreaded Walmart at the front.

For overseas questions shipping for me adds approx 23% to the cost of the item, for air freight you add a dollar an item. Each item costs 15p to handle through the DC then I get charged for storing, transportation to store etc.

For the Mothercare question, the company is a franchise run I think by the Al Shayah group. So there are a group of people in Kuwait making the decisions on what to buy for their own market and when to bring it in. They are responsible for knowing their customer requirements but part of their franchise agreement might be that they have to have commonality of the range to some extent. They also tend to set the prices for their own markets.

I once helped build a franchise package for a UK chain opening stores in the Mall of the Emerites and Waafi Mall. I had pulled together a package of linen and summer clothing but they rejected it and even took some knits, so I imagine they are catering to an Emerati customer and perhaps not enough to the expat market?

Australia for franchise packages is a nightmare to build! They are completely opposite in seasonality, so they find it hard to select from a UK retailers range. Their quantities are so small that they can't reach minimum order quantities by themselves in a lot of cases so can't generate a seasonal buy without a lot of risk. Usually retailers end up holding back the previous seasons stock to sell to them the following season.

Right - I am on holiday now and off to enjoy some downtime. Hopefully the weather will turn a bit for everyone, statistically last years weather in the UK was off the charts compared to average years. I landed in Manchester airport this evening and everyone was in shorts and flip flops! We Swiss passengers looked very dowdy in comparison.

I've always found the UK customer enjoyably free of worry about the sensibility and practicality of fashion compared to our European counterparts where there are rules for every age, size and occasion. It's very boring on this side of the channel.