...to wish retailers would just look out the fecking window?

[somewherewest]

...inspired by our local branch of Jojo Maman Tres Expensif*, which is chocca with sunhats and swimwear despite the fact its fecking -5 outside. Seriously? There were icicles overhanging their beachwear window display last week.

*I realise this immediately discloses the fact that we're not in Toxteth or Brixton

I have four pairs of spare mittens if anyone wants them. PM me your address and I'll send you some. They are suitable for age 1-3ish.

I think you are in OYBBK.

To the poster who said that sales of girls shorts are up and jean sales are down

People are buying shorts because its a fashion trend at the moment to wear shorts especially denim ones over thick tights or leggings. My dds both love this fashion as do the teen mates of my ds. I am to old and fat to get away with this or I would be too!

They (and me as a parent) are not buying these shorts because it is hot!

Yes, I love MuddyPuddles. They do great warm stuff.

Oybbk, yes, I think very large retailers do buy in seasonal forecasts.

But as you say, the met office is only 65% accurate. You know more than me but would the forecasts really say "cold weather will persist till first week of April, including snow" or more like "thus winter will be x% colder than last year"?

As the buyers on the thread have said, there are so many factors in the supply chain that actually even near perfect forecasting of the weather a year out might not be enough. Posters are saying they are not listening to what the customer wants. The customer has price as a key driver and with constrained price comes a lot of other restrictions eg no excess warehousing space.

Retailers run an awful lot of focus groups as well as an awful lot of numbers.

My DD is 6 and I buy age 7, 8 or even age 9 when there are sales. My DS is nearly 3 and I buy age 4-5 or age 6-7 in tops or coats so that when they need them, I already have them. I rarely buy full price for anything, unless it is an 'emergency'.

I found it very difficult to buy school uniform in DD's size once the term had started so had to buy in two sizes (so she could fit either) in July. Her trousers are now getting to be too short, but no local shops have plain grey, heavy cotton trousers at the moment. I do not want to buy girly ones in legging style fabric with embroidered flowers on them. They would rip apart in the first week. Why aren't girls uniforms practical?

Also why is so much of the foot exposed in girls school shoes? My DD has to wear wellies on the school run, then change into the impractical shoes for the classroom. Nothing is geared up for the changeable/ wet / cold / windy British weather.

It is as if we have to buy what the shops want to sell us, rather than what we want to get.

I was one of the ones buying t shirts and shirts last week. In fact I really struggled to get nice girls shorts for dd. I've ended up buying two pais from Zara out here in Lanzarote where it is 21 degrees!

I wouldn't buy long sleeved t shirts at this tone if year because we have so many I bought in the autumn. They are getting a bit small how but I know if I buy more now they won't be worn. Instead ill buy the ruin cardigans that are out.

I also struggled to get a summer coat/jacket for myself as due to the snow I hadn't really thought about it until the day before we flew.

I couldn't find any nice swimming costumes either.

These same retailers who are ignoring customers will be the ones blaming the recession when their business goes to the wall and they are out of a job. Fed up of seeing poorly run companies putting it all down to the recession when actually it is down to poor management and not adapting to the customer's needs quickly enough. Adapt or die, it's as simple as that.

The school uniform people are after is available year round but people won't pay the prices at the school uniform shops you can get them from. I guess the prices reflect the type if stock they have to carry. You can also order Snything in M& S year round to collect in store. It was annoying last autumn that Asda do not make a long sleeved girls school shirt (3/4) not allowed at dd's school) any more.

Yes, I will have to order school trousers to be delivered to M&S. Then get DS1 to try them on.

Our school uniform shop is brilliant but the trousers are too big at the waist for DS1.

Doctrine it is done as a probabilistic forecast: there is x% chance it will be drier than usual y% chance that it will be wetter than usual and z% chance that there will be average precipitation etc. you could use it to weight decisions on what stock and when to have it in, but it would be very much a dark art.

This is utterly fascinating and I seem to be gathering its down to the old adage 'you get what you pay for'.

I paid more than supermarket price for the navy jumper I was after last week, and ended up going on line, as I didn't have time to traipse. And bought more than the one item - all lost business to the supermarket.

And it wasn't just a case of space on the shop floor: there was a uniform section in the supermarket, but alrhought they found space for girls cardigans in a range of colours, there was only one colour (not used in any local school) in unisex. So perhaps 'low' sales have several causes.

YANBU however with this change the knitwear usually gets reduced so you can scoop up some bargains for now and next year. So every cloud...

I understand that adult sized clothing is ordered and sold so far in advance of when it is actually needed, since, barring disasters, adults tend to know what they will need in advance. eg, I know that I will need a new winter coat next winter as the one I wear now will not last another year. So, I can look for a new coat in august or September when they appear on the shelves. If I was desperately in need of one now, I could trawl the internet and probably find one. But I really don't understand why children's clothes are marketed in the same way. Children have growth spurts which are not predictable. Sometimes, like mine, they miss a size completely, so buying the next size 'for later' wouldn't have worked for me and in any case, how many of us have enough money available to 'double purchase' on that basis? I know I never did. When DC1 was a baby (under a year), due to a sudden growth spurt, I needed to buy some t-shirts in July. Not one shop in my local, big town had any. Even Mothercare, the supposed 'specialist' babywear shop, only had autumnwear on its shelves. I ended up buying some poor quality bits from the local market as there really was no alternative - no internet back then. So, as I say, adults clothes - yes, I can see the arguments, even if I disagree, but children's clothes? Really?

I went to Next yesterday to buy DS some long sleeved T shirts. None, not one. They are fucking spring items surely?

When I made my comment to the "ladies" I was referring to the other two posters in the same profession as me btw, not a derogatory statement to the customers so I apologise for that.

I was using Walmart as an example, the factories I use are actually competing with Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren and Guess production. I have seen some Debenhams clothes on the storage rails there too, on my last visit. It's just the well repeated fact that 1 in every 4 containers on the sea at anyone moment us for Walmart (which as most of you know, includes Asda).

I know Debenhams invested in a weather predicting system, but that really isn't going to tell you when Spring is going to start in 2014 is it? It can be helpful in prioritizing your allocations and intake into the DC but as someone else mentioned the stock is on the water and if you've hopefully had a good season you will have sold out of previous seasons stock.

I have had my team delay and delay on sending out SS product, I have held back on my coats in store, my sweat stock mix is around 190% higher quantities than ly, with a lower ASP and better size runs, yet I am only selling around 80 more units a week than LY when it was 10 degrees warmer across Europe. I have put all of my winter accessories into a basket on 3 for 2 and sold about 10% more over plan. So I lost more money than if I hadn't bothered. My sales are suffering because I made the decision to try and extend Winter in line with the weather, and god am I hearing about it!

For the customers on here who want a long sleeved tee shirt, on the chance it may be cold, I would have to stock at least 2 of each of your size range in my stores so on average I have to buy let's say 24 units just to sell you one. And more than likely in a few colours. Not only that, I may have 150 shops so I would be expected to stock 24 in each of these are I don't know where you are. So I have to stock 3600 units at a likely cost of around 8000-9000 pounds to sell one t shirt at £12.99. If the weather changes next week, and you change your mind, I am left with 3599 long sleeve tee shirts.

We have to put our money where the least risk is, and that is in definite seasons. This is why I mentioned that transition is the riskiest season to predict, and you tend to put less of your money there. The spend has reduced based on historic customer patterns. I go back and look at 4-5 years history and calendar patterns to see which seasons and product have the best mix. If the customers aren't buying in an historic pattern, we have to move the money.

We have a limited budget to spend and targets on the stock we have to close the season on, so we have to put our money where the least risk is.

I'm not saying whether it's wrong or right, I think people in the industry have come on and tried their best to explain how the business works. I am a customer and a mother too. I do oftern buy an age in advance but only in the end of season sale when I see a cheap snow suit at a knock down price for example.

I am constantly reminding my team of the view point of the customer, to my husbands frustration i used to spend all my free time competitive shopping and analyising customers in shopping centres,and yes when I did work in a retailer that made a lot of floral dresses I was the loudest voice for a capped sleeve.

And who said we're not listening? Of course we are, but I can't turn around a customer requirement in a large retailer in a matter of days. It's because we listened to customer trends on transition that we have the situation we see now.

Those of you buying online - are you buying from online only retailers or from those with a high street presence also?

Wally - cap sleeves aren't sleeves though they do reduce sunburned shoulders and enable bra wearing. Can you wave your wand and get us something mid bicep or below? Thanks

This time lasy year ( heat wave) did you want a coat?

All I remember from last year is it rained. Rain, rain and more rain. I have a winter coat with a hood and I wore it constantly while walking the dog.

When was the heatwave last year?

Ha ha I am not in the same business sadly. I'm in sportswear now.

I have very often copied and emailed threads from here that are particularly scathing to a certain retailer to the buying director of that particular retailer.

So hopefully next season, or at the end of this one, if there is enough OTB you might get your wish.

Fatface used to be pretty good at the 3/4 sleeve tops and dresses - or is that not your style?

It was In March en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_2012_United_Kingdom_heat_wave

Ooh I love Fatface.

Incidentally one of my team members told me that the wettest town in Wales is the top selling store in the country for wife beater vests and flip flops in the Burton company.

Not impressed because I actually come from that town.

I like fat face, but in general there doesn't seem to be many sleeves between cap and 3/4 - except on tshirts and even those you sometimes have to buy a small men's to not get cap sleeves (eg Olympics merchandise last year)

Yes, I do remember the one week in March. The rest of it was a total washout...or very nearly.