To not want my mum to be put on the medical pathway?

[ClippedPhoenix]

My mum is dying. I accept that and she's in hospital. They want to put her on the "pathway" and take everything away. Im in agreement with taking the antibiotics etc. away as of course she won't be cured. Im not in agreement with them taking her fluids away. She is lucid and comfortable. My thoughts are that she will go of course but I've heard that taking fluids away is very painful and maybe its me wanting her to sit up, talk to us then go but I'm so reluctant for them to give her so many drugs (for the pain) that she will be in a coma for her last days. Could someone explain this?

Dying is as natural as being born. The LCP is no more euthanasia than induction is abortion. The sad thing is that people ARE going to die- why not let them go in peace and as little pain and intervention as possible?
It amazes me that we advocate for as little medical intervention as possible for the beginning of life- but not for the end.

Dear OP,sorry to read about your mum.My mum passed away in October 2011,she had cancer.In October 2010 she was given months to live and then in April 2011 ( following a very difficult week ) she was placed on the pathway,they withdrew drugs such as thyroxin but after a really bad Saturday on the Sunday she rallied and with help she was able to eat and drink ,at the beginning of the week she was too ill to be moved to a hospice ( where she wanted to be when she died ) but by the end of the week she was too well to take a hospice bed,the hospital took her off the pathway and reinstated all drugs.She passed away 6 months later in a nursing home.In her case the plan was not the end and the doctors recognised that she had fight left in her! I don't regret that she was put on it and so in my experience if used with care and compassion it is an acceptable path to take.

Clipped

Just wanted to extend my sympathy to you. Your Mum sounds like a wonderful woman.

Littlebairn I have had personal experience as well as practical experience of the LCP as you would see on my first post.

My mum died last year. She had cancer. I miss her everyday. Do you honestly think I would have allowed her to be put on the LCP if I felt it was euthanasia? It gave her dignity when she was dying, it took her pain away, it was the right thing to do.

Also, when it comes to the end for me, I want to be put on the LCP. Not because I blindly follow it by virtue of my training but because it is an excellent tool to provide a dignified, comfortable and pain free death. What all humans want and deserve.

Hugs to you Clipped.

Firstly Clipped I'm sorry you're going through this, it's utterly utterly shit and my thoughts are with you and your family (as much as the internet allows) x

You've had some fantastic advice here, and good explanations and all I can add is that if nothing else, you have to remember that it's a PATHWAY not an instant denial of everything.

My neighbour died at home, so once he couldn't sip water (with help) he couldn't get water at all and this did (in my limited opinion) hasten the end, or rather, did not prolong his suffering. (we, his random neighbours and son, did moisten his lips with water when they 'looked' dry, but that was more to lessen our distress at him looking uncomfortable - nothing wrong with that either).

I do feel the LCP is misunderstood, and that the very very few cases where it has been mismanaged have cast a shadow over what is probably the most humane end of life care we've ever known in this country. It is compassionate, and designed to lessen distress near the end, not increase it.

I wis the 'pathway' had been more utilised when my MIL needed it, with the best intentions of family and no clear plan, she suffered needlessly.

I sincerely hope the end is peaceful for your mum, she's sounds fab, you need to believe you are a good daughter too and it is always alright to question things, because you care. x

The LCP was not widely available when my dad died - and I wept when I went into see him as he tried to pull put the IV lines and nasal tubes. I'd read about the kind of things the pathway recommended, withdrawal of fluids etc but the hospital was geared up to intervention. He died of heart failure on a horrible general ward waiting to go into a home rather than peacefully of the pneumonia they 'cured' him of a couple of weeks before.

My mothers death was very different, peaceful and calm with no interventions. I absolutely would insist that any of my loved ones was put on the LCP and would want it for myself. I hope your mums end, when it comes, is a peaceful one OP.

Hi all, thank you so so much for all your kind wishes. I just wanted to check in quickly to say that. I'm off to the hospital now and will come back and update later.

Mumsnet - having this is AIBU is fine. Makes for a far more colourful read. Im not offended in the slightest by any views on here or a little barney.

Well, as I said I'm off to see mum now to have a giggle with her.

I hope you enjoy and cherish this time with your Mum

Update.

Because mum had to stay on the anti-biotics etc. for longer due to the Easter holidays as there were no highly qualified doctors around she bounced back and is now sitting up in bed demanding omlets and all sorts.

So it does still beg the question whether this is the right thing to do. Surely if medical intervention doesn't help then leave them with it, if non evasive, they already have the line etc in anyway.

Has she been drinking? If she's hungry and saying so, surely she should be fed - pathway or no pathway?

Hope you're OK Clipped.

I'm glad she's improved clipped! It sounds like she's rallied (I assume she's getting what she fancies food wise?). Yes sometimes when we minimise all the invasive treatment ironically people do seem to settle and at times improve - in those circumstances we can look to restart treatment options.

Regardless, I hope you've been able to spend plenty of time with your Mum

I'm puzzled what you mean by no 'highly qualified doctors around'. There certainly were registrars & consultants in every day in every hospital in the country.

Sounds liked she has rallied though, although it'll be impossible to say if that's as a result of antibiotics. It shows though why we do review the LCP lots. We don't just start it & then abandon people.

Glad to hear she's doing well. May that continue.

Also, just wondering, did they ever put your mum on the LCP or was it just talked about as something they were going to do if she didn't get better?

With all the nonsense Daily Mail publicity, lots of people, as demonstrated here, have completely wrong ideas about it so doctors often mention it a little ahead of time so that families are prepared that their relative might die & also have a chance to ask questions or raise concerns before so it can all be explained to them what it really is before time.

polly, people on the pathway area allowed to eat whatever they want. It's just they are not forced to eat.

They were going to put her on the pathway because she just looked so tiny and as if she was giving up. The antibiotics took longer to kick in I guess.

As for no senior doctors, this is what was told to us. They said they'd "skype them" blimey!

It does, due to what I've witnessed make me very wary about this "pathway" thing.

No "invasive" procedures were being performed only a line for drugs and fluids.

I'm 100 percent all for a do not recucitate order which all the family have agreed to but Im 100 percent against taking everything away now.

But I guess this is just our situation and everyones is different.