Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To not want my mum to be put on the medical pathway?

90 replies

ClippedPhoenix · 30/03/2013 18:29

My mum is dying. I accept that and she's in hospital. They want to put her on the "pathway" and take everything away. Im in agreement with taking the antibiotics etc. away as of course she won't be cured. Im not in agreement with them taking her fluids away. She is lucid and comfortable. My thoughts are that she will go of course but I've heard that taking fluids away is very painful and maybe its me wanting her to sit up, talk to us then go but I'm so reluctant for them to give her so many drugs (for the pain) that she will be in a coma for her last days. Could someone explain this?

OP posts:
HavingALittleFaithBaby · 30/03/2013 23:17

Little do you read the Daily Fail?!

It's not euthanasia in the slightest. It's accepting the inevitable and making someone as comfortable as possible.

pollypandemonium · 30/03/2013 23:22

Little maybe you should start a thread about it elsewhere - this isn't the place for a full on debate about the principles behind the lcp, I think OP just wants some understanding and explanation.

oneandnomore · 30/03/2013 23:24

Little, please have some compassion. Chipping is asking for advice during the most distressing time.
Obviously, you do not fully understand the LCP as you have formed such inaccurate opinions of it.
Please keep these opinions to yourself.

Chipping, I am really sorry for what you are going through. Sending you hugs.

BehindLockNumberNine · 30/03/2013 23:25

LittleBairn you have NO idea what you are talking about. Not about the LCP nor about euthanasia.

Educate yourself before spouting your daily fail rubbish, please, as you are needlessly and ignorantly stomping over the OP (who is going through a tough time)' s thread and it is not making you look pretty.

grovel · 30/03/2013 23:37

So sorry, Clipped. I was "lucky" when my Mum died. Three days earlier she said "I'm ready, darling". It made the final days so much easier.

LittleBairn, the medics know when organs are failing for the last time.

chickydoo · 30/03/2013 23:42

clippedphoenix
My Mum is on the LCP. She is totally paralyzed since having a stroke several years ago. She has some dementia, but weirdly she seems more like her old self since being on the LCP. She had another stroke 6 weeks ago, it was very major, and we all thought she was going to die, but she didn't. She is in a nursing home, they are wonderful. She is on patches for her pain, and the dosage is increased whenever the pain breaks through. ( she feels agony in her limbs that don't work, and gets terrible headaches) She has refused solid food for the last 6 weeks (since the last stroke) The nursing home give her sips of a vitamin drink, every 20-30 mins, I sat with her today and she had half a cup of tea through a straw. The nursing home also try clear soup, and milk shake things, although they make her gag. They have stopped offering her solid food as her stomach couldn't take it, or she might choke on it. Littlebairn this is kindness not cruelty. Cruelty would be to bruise mums arms by forcing an iv in to them, to make her cry by shoving food in to her, to distress her by poking and prodding. My mum is being treated beautifully. She has her hair combed softly, her favorite perfume is sprayed on her, and as I said she is continually being offered fluids of all sorts. I am under no illusions my mum is dying, it is heartbreaking, I have seen her brain scans... it is a real mess in there...The Lcp gets bad press by those who don't understand it, and maybe in some settings it is not put in place in the best way, or there are not enough nursing staff to offer drinks, care, love and kindness when required. Ideally a patient is better off in a nursing home or hospice, where the staff have time to look after and care for their patients to the best of their ability.
Clippedphoenix please feel free to pm me, we can hold hands together through this difficult time.

LittleBairn · 30/03/2013 23:43

The OP was posting about not wanting her mother on it, hence I gave support and my opinion.

I don't read the Mail so have no idea what they say on the matter.
It's a fact that the pathway it's to quicken death, to cause it IMO, hence it's Euthanisa.
I don't actually have an issue with Euthanisa as long as people face the fact that its Eithansia. But there is the slight issue Euthansia is still illegal in the UK.
If it was legal such inhuman ways of causing death wouldn't be happening.
There would also need to be some sort of regulation governing it too, most likely that a person has to CHOOSE to be on the pathway. Most likely why they ar pushing it by the back door then they don't have to deal with people's consent.

I've been taking an interest in these pathways due to my sister have a serious degenerative disorder, she is very worried about her own future being put on the pathway. She would rater I put a pillow over her face. I young woman of 25 shouldn't be worried about that sort of thing.

I've also noticed many people pushing the OP into accepting it are also those who have been involved in pathways. I wanted to provide the OP with a balance of opinions like she asked, just because medics may think this is ideal others may have other opinions. Hence posting on a Discusion forum, of she only wants medical facts then she can speak to her mothers Dr.

LadyBeaEGGleEyes · 30/03/2013 23:43

I also agree that if it's something you don't agree with, start another thread LittleBairn.
This is not the place, Chipping's mum is dying, she's asking for reassurance.
I was in the same place last May, my mum was the same age, and if she hadn't have had died naturally I would have liked her to have been offered the LCP.
Though by the time she died, she wouldn't have known what she was consenting too.

LittleBairn · 30/03/2013 23:49

I will retire from this thread for respect for the OP because ypur right a debate between us derails the Q she asked which I've already given an answer.

But I do find it concerning that only people who agree with the pathways are allowed an opinion, how on earth can the poster get a full picture of whats going on if only one side of the argument is heard?

Angelico · 30/03/2013 23:50

Littlebairn your idiotic posts are making me so angry that the only reason I don't F you all over the page is because I would be deleted. You have clearly never watched a loved one dying and your ignorance and arrogance make me sick. Our lovely uncle died a few weeks ago and was put on the pathway. I only wish he'd been put on it sooner and slightly more aggressively which would have spared him some pain.

Clipped I'm so sorry your mum is going through this. We'll all go through it and when the time comes I want to be as comfortable and peaceful as possible. Your mum is getting the best possible care and hopefully the docs posting on here will reassure you. Ignore the fearmongers. And sending you a v unMNy hug, so sorry Thanks

chickydoo · 30/03/2013 23:51

LittleBairn
Maybe in 20 years you will understand. It is not Euthanasia, it is helping a dying person to be comfortable and stress free. Now putting a pillow over your sisters face is something different... I believe they call it murder!

YellowDinosaur · 30/03/2013 23:57

Littlebairn the fact is until your latest post you gave no considered opinion or discussion at all, just came on spouting Bollocks and fucked off again. That is not giving helpful opinion to someone whose Mum is dying Hmm. Of course you can disagree, but if you're going to do so then back it up like at least you have tried to do with your latest post. But I'll say it again, the lcp is NOT euthanasia by the back door so whatever you have been reading to find out more about the lcp it's Bollocks. I can't remember he second name but there is a doctor in elderly care called kate Granger who is dying of cancer and speaks very eloquently about the benefits of the lcp, as someone who has experience on both sides. Google her for some decent properly backed up info. Or check out one of her articles here

Chickydoo your post nearly made me cry. Your Mum is being treated with dignity and heartfelt care - what more could you hope for? I hope when its my time, or those I love, that it will be similar x

grovel · 31/03/2013 00:01

OK, Little Bairn, I'm really sorry about your sister and wish you well.

Inevitably posters on here will hope they "did the right thing" and defend the treatment their loved ones received. I have worried (at length) about the Pathway but it's not euthanasia. It does not speed up death. It just does not delay it.

pollypandemonium · 31/03/2013 02:55

little I would guess that all of the posters on here know what they are talking about from first hand experience. I certainly have had difficult experiences having watched 3 immediate family members die very recently. But I'm not going to talk here about what happened or what I believe is right or wrong because I don't feel it's appropriate to do so on this thread when OP is going through such a difficult time and wants to understand what is happening to her Mum.

There is a lot I would like to share and discuss, but I won't because this is Clipped's thread about her mother.

Madratlady · 31/03/2013 03:15

I am also a nurse in elderly care and would want the LCP to be used if one of my loved ones was reaching the end of their life.

Active treatment is stopped and any medication given is in response to symptoms e.g. pain relief or anti-sickness medication. Patients can eat and drink whatever they want as long as they are able to swallow it. Everything is centred around the patient being comfortable.

The pathway is reviewed regularly by doctors to ensure that it is in the patient's best interests and their needs are being met.

Having looked after both patients on the LCP and patients who were having active and invasive procedures up to the end, I think the LCP is a much more dignified end to life.

Sorry for the long post but as someone who deals with the dying on a daily basis, this is something I feel very strongly about.

TheUnsinkableTitanic · 31/03/2013 05:29

I agree with the posters who wished the LCP was available for their loved ones.

We asked about this type of intervention several years ago and where told about the LCP trials but wasn't allowed for family member.

The suffering we watched was inhumane - he should have been allowed to die peacefully/naturally

tangerinefeathers · 31/03/2013 05:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AllOverIt · 31/03/2013 06:28

I knew nothing about the pathway before reading this thread. Now I have, I think it's a wonderful thing. To give people dignity at the end.

I wish you well OP. Your mum sounds ace! All the best Thanks

Montybojangles · 31/03/2013 08:18

OP I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this, your mum sounds amazing. I'm glad she is being cared for somewhere where the staff have got to really know her. The pathway is a very caring dignified planning of care to make someone's end of life as comfortable and peaceful as possible. Sending hugs.

littlebairn I'm very sorry to hear about your sisters illness, but you are very, very wrong. Withdrawal of treatment is just that, a withdrawal of a medical intervention or treatment allowing the patients disease or death to progress in its natural, less stressful course. Euthanasia is an active intervention that hastens someone's natural death. 2 very different things.

frumpet · 31/03/2013 09:00

As someone who has nursed pre and post introduction of the LCP , i have seen the difference it can make to someone at the end of life stage . What i find curious amongst those who disagree with it and call it back door euthanasia is that at its core it follows the principles of care given in hospices across the land . Care that is seen as gold standard in end of life care . Yet to see the Daily Mail calling for the closure of all adult and childrens hospices ?

frumpet · 31/03/2013 09:08

OP , i am so sorry you are going through this Sad

lotsofdogshere · 31/03/2013 09:26

My mum died 3 years ago, and I can identify with all the other posters who offer support to the op about the pathway. My husband is just off to visit his close pal, aged 58 who is in our local hospice, too ill to go home to die, as had been his wish. Like others, I've been close to family/friends as their lives have come to an end, and it's so good to see positive comments about the LCP. I'm with others who attack the Daily Wail's negative and hostile comments about something that helps so many people, and simply whips us fear and anxiety like that shown by Littlebairn.

MNHQ
OloeufiaMumsnet · 31/03/2013 09:58

Hi there OP
So sorry that you are going through this with your mum.
Do let us know if you'd like us to move this thread out of AIBU won't you?

kissmyheathenass · 31/03/2013 10:05

I lost my dear dad a year ago today. He was on the LCP and his last days were peaceful and pain free. His death was dignified. I thought it was a very humane treatment. Sorry you are going through this.

CelticPromise · 31/03/2013 10:12

Clipped I'm so sorry you are going through this. My mum died last autumn and she was on the LCP for her last few days. I was so worried that she wasn't getting fluids but the doctors explained that the cannulas would be distressing for her and she would not be feeling thirsty. She had sips of water and mouth care.

It's so hard to watch someone you love dying. Wishing you strength and peace.