In thinking something is very very VERY wrong with some dog owners? [Long, sorry, but feel kinda strongly here!]

[StoicButStressed]

Dogs and irresponsible dog owners - am just so so angry at this and the 'latest' death of a child. I can't get my head round the utter horror of a young teenage girl mauled to death by a pack of dogs at her friends house. Or the sheer terror she must have felt as clearly she would not have died instantly. Apart from all the countless other serious (& disfiguring etc) injuries suffered by dog attacks - & that only make it as far as the local newspaper - 7 people, FIVE of whom were children have been killed by dogs IN homes. Clearly that figure is now 8.

Those stats (aka people) are from a report by the Environment, Food & Rural Affairs Committee. It also said 'the NHS spends more than £3m a year treating severe dog attack injuries and claimed current legislation had "comprehensively failed" to tackle irresponsible dog ownership. Gather there is some legislation coming in in 2016 (WTF???) but seems nowhere near enough. NHS costs of £3m hint at the number of attacks that fly below media radar - but it must be a bloody huge number???? I know (I hope) that most dog-owners are responsible people, but clearly a shedload aren't. WHY are they allowed to have dogs? There isn't even a basic bloody licence system anymore and it pisses me off that there ISN'T a more robust legislation system in place. I also think they should be on leads in public other than designated areas and I swear if I hear one more quote from someone whose dog has attacked/killed a kid saying "But he is such a LOVELY dog normally", I think I'll nut my TV screen.

I was bitten badly by a German Shepherd as a teenager when simply walking home. DS1, aged 2 at the time, was sent flying (literally) when a huge dog - obv NOT on a lead - suddenly charged at him from far corner of a park and sent him off his feet high into the air. DS1 was TERRIFIED for months any time we even stepped into a bloody park. NEITHER of those 2 dog 'owners' did a thing - literally NADA. Am steaming just recalling the (huge and L/term) impact it had on DS1. Dogs are pack animals who need training, taking care of, and exercising - if people can't do that, why the fuck should they be able to HAVE dogs? And I genuinely cannot think of any friends WITH dogs who would disagree with that - they seem as angry as me at the irresponsible owners who inflict such frickin carnage. AIBU in thinking something HAS to change here????

Other thing about the very recent death is my younger DS's would LOVE to have a dog - but I know I can't afford it (food, vet's bills, etc etc) OR have the time TO properly look after it. So (& I am NOT benefit bashing here, am solely referencing this one individual) HTFuck does a Mum of 5 on benefits afford the 5 bloody dogs that just killed this child? Or is there a link between that and the fact the dogs weren't trained etc etc? And somewhere, lying in a fucking morgue, is a dead teenage girl - said to be 'unrecognisable' from the mass mauling that killed her.

following up on coolas my parents are in a city of germany where every dog has to be on a leash in public except for certain fenced areas in parks.
dog handlers can get an excemption certificate so they can let dogs off the lead, but that is very expensive (around 50? per dog handler).

My neighbour has 5 dogs, she takes them out without leads and they just run riot, they're out of control. Catching, report your neighbour - sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen.

Definitely bring back dog licensing and dog wardens funded by licence.

I also think dogs that are not licensed should be put to sleep. Any responsible owner would ensure they comply and the irresponsible owners (ie those without a licence) would lose the dog that they were unwilling to take responsibility for.

Dd 1 was bitten by a dog but she still loves them. Ds was attacked by 2 large dogs off leads and 9 years later he is still utterly terrified of dogs off leads. It impacts hugely on where we go and what we do.

smilingthroughgrittedteeth

I wouldn't trust a dog around food either but that isn't to say dogs ca't be trusted around children.

massive over reactions (again). The poor girl is question was a victim of crap dog ownership and some badly trained dogs.

coola, you may well be right about the licensing here in Germany, but sheesh, the amount of dog shit here is shocking. There are no laws to make people clear up after their dogs, and it looks like most people don't. There is dog shit in children's play parks, all over the pavements, it is a minefield.

OP, yanbu.

I would love to see dog free towns. I'd move there. I keep my toddler away from dogs. I don't care if people think I am paranoid or crazy. I'd rather that than him be a statistic, and ALL dogs are capable of doing damage.

I don't believe you can get extra benefits for dogs Ineedagoldennickname's brother is talking out of his arse I fear. And the PDSA always used to only treat one pet per household.

I'd like to see dog licences, run on the same principles as DVLA, with real teeth in the punishment for non-compliance. Just confiscating the dog leaves us with yet another dog to rehome while the tithead owner can go off and get another off GumTree or FB selling pages.

I also think the license should be about £30 a year, but £500 a year for un-neutered dogs and bitches over the age of 15 months.

What about putting doggy contraceptive in all High Street petfood?

lentil
yep that is the downside of a licence.
many dogowners don't bothet to pick up 'because they paid for it' via the dog tax/licence fee.

I agree there needs to be a licensing system but I'm completely biased as someone who is phobic of dogs after a bad experience.

I know there are thousands of responsible dog owners out there. Licensing protects them too.

intheframe sorry I should have clarified I meant children I and my dog don't know well, she is regularly left with my dsc and cousins as I know they know how to treat dogs, I would never put her in a position where she was left with a child that didn't know how to treat her ie not to lay on her as she has arthritis and a small child on her hips would cause pain, I don't think she would ever hurt a child but I wouldn't take the risk.

Sorry should have explained better I blame the painkillers

DeepRedBetty, I don't think i believe it either, not sure who told my brother that you can, but it might be true?

YANBU. I am a dog owner myself, and my dog is lovely and I like to think well trained but he is very hard work. We walk him for up to two hours a day, longer at weekends, and he needs that because I've noticed that If he doesn't get enough exercise he becomes hyper and chews anything in sight. He is never let off the lead and we never leave him alone with children, not because he is nasty but because I don't feel any dog can be 100% trusted. He is still a young dog, not a year old yet, so its still a work in progress but dogs needs so much love and attention and I think a lot of people don't realise how much. They go out, get a dog, and they shove them in a back yard ignoring them all day and that's when they become nasty IMO. If you can't be bothered putting the hard work in then do not get a dog.

A lot of the time its the Staffie involved in these kinds of attacks. Now these dogs can make wonderful pets if they go to responsible owners, I personally know two families with Staffies and they are as daft as brushes but the owners walk them often, they have large gardens for them to run in and they have been socialised with children and others animals from puppies. They are intelligent dogs and needs lots of exercise and stimulation, sadly a lot of people get these dogs for the wrong reasons and that's when the problems start.

I am fully in favour of dog licences. The woman who owned the animals that attacked and killed Jade should not have been allowed to keep five large dogs in a small back yard like that. It's beyond irresponsible.

CHILDREN are being killed. Ripped to pieces. No justification for anyone to own a dog. Shit everywhere,some parks and open spaces no go areas for scared families. Over reaction? So what. Get another hobby, dog nuts.

I agree OP there is a bozo man near us who owns two of those huger French mastiff things whatever the hell they are. A fellow dog walker told me he had reported him to the police after witnessing one incident on our local park where one of them bit a jogger on the leg and seeing the results of another where a young ladies dog needed loads of stitches after one of them bit her small dog. The man also knows of another man who got bit on the hand by one of them when he tried to separate it from his dog. The police said because none of the people have come forward themselves they cant do anything as it's like hearsay.
So l guess we will just have to wait till one eats a bloody child then shall we

Can I assume that not one of the previous posters has read any of the current legislation? The problem isn't a lack of laws, more of enforcement in some quarters. You can be imprisoned for having your dog out of control in a public place. Out of control includes your dog "appearing aggressive" (ie barking) while on a lead in the street . When we had a dog I read the whole thing and it makes chilling reading. Dog owners have many responsibilities and zero rights.

It is the usual problem that we have with just about everything in society. You want to make dog ownership like car ownership? Yes that's fine, but how many people do not have car insurance, even though it is compulsory? They drive despite having never taken a test. Exactly the same would happen with dogs. Those who already go to classes, have insurance, pick up after their dog will pay out even more, while those with lots of dangerous dogs will not bother. And nothing will happen to them, just as now.

If you could stop the back-yard breeding and the puppy farming so that only responsible breeders could breed dogs that would be a start.

Each time there is a dog attack Joe Public screams for more dog laws. It is a tragedy, just as all the others were. But it is never the family dog where the child actually lives - always granny's/ uncle's/ neighbour's/ friend's. None of these ideas will help at all. We need to stop the wrong people having access to the wrong dogs. But I can't see how that can be achieved.

Agree with everyone who has said that owners must be help responsible for the behaviour or their dogs. I don't understand how it is that a person can be fined for not clearing up their dog's mess and yet someone who has effectively caused the death of this poor girl can escape any charges at all.

Issue is being discussed as I write on R4 debate show.

CHARLEAROSE Think you may have answered my genuine bewilderment at just HOW someone on benefits could afford 5 dogs.

HERE - THIS. Scroll down to pic of her even bigger doggy feeding 7 l'il pups. It's from her fucking FB ad of selling puppies.

So THAT'S presumably how this luvverlly law-abiding citizen sustained both her killer dogs, and presumably, herself beyond benefit income. And in doing so taking the total PISS out of all who pay taxes, and ALL who are GENUINELY on & in NEED OF benefits.

Please, someone tell me that she will at least be charged for benefit fraud? ACUTELY aware that won't even begin to approximate death by dangerous dog 'driving' or equiv, but would at least be something??

YANBU and I say that as someone who like dogs more than most people.

Anyone who allows their dog to bite or attack another person, in their own home or not, should be liable to criminal prosecution. We also need tighter laws regarding dog ownership and particularly dog breeding in this country. The fact is, if puppies or dogs were only available through reputable rescues and breeders, this woman would have probably never been able to own five dogs.

Owning a dog is not a right, it's a privaledge and one that comes with huge responsibilities, too many people abuse that and this is obviously what the result can be.

I come from NZ, where dogs need to be licenced with local council from 3 months of age.
The fee varies from area to area, depending how much of a problem dogs are in that region, but in the biggest city if you pass a 'responsible owner 'test, have a secure garden and your animal is neutered it will cost you less that £30 a year. Further discounts are available for service dogs, farm dogs, senior citizens and for people receiving benefits.
I believe that if you can't afford a £30 a year licence fee, then you probably can't afford to have a dog.

What tallulah said. The laws are already there, they are just not being enforced.

Dogs fouling, dogs out of control in a public place (including merely appearing intimidating, judging by the wording!) - fines, prosecution and dog control orders including being made to keep the dog muzzled and on a lead of a prescribed length are all available.

Compulsory microchipping is already on the way. Breeding licenses have to be obtained if you breed more than 5 litters in any 12 months. It includes a fee, checks on the welfare of the dogs and conditions of their sale as can be read here. IMO this should go a lot further and the number of litters be vastly reduced before it kicks in. The KC assured breeder scheme is a voluntary version of this which is slightly more stringent, though still lacking in some compulsory pre-breeding health checks which would make it a gold standard in dog breeding and responsible puppy buying.

The kind of owners that are the problem won't get a dog license.

And people like this get their dogs from backyard breeders and are often BYB themselves.