In thinking something is very very VERY wrong with some dog owners? [Long, sorry, but feel kinda strongly here!]

[StoicButStressed]

Dogs and irresponsible dog owners - am just so so angry at this and the 'latest' death of a child. I can't get my head round the utter horror of a young teenage girl mauled to death by a pack of dogs at her friends house. Or the sheer terror she must have felt as clearly she would not have died instantly. Apart from all the countless other serious (& disfiguring etc) injuries suffered by dog attacks - & that only make it as far as the local newspaper - 7 people, FIVE of whom were children have been killed by dogs IN homes. Clearly that figure is now 8.

Those stats (aka people) are from a report by the Environment, Food & Rural Affairs Committee. It also said 'the NHS spends more than £3m a year treating severe dog attack injuries and claimed current legislation had "comprehensively failed" to tackle irresponsible dog ownership. Gather there is some legislation coming in in 2016 (WTF???) but seems nowhere near enough. NHS costs of £3m hint at the number of attacks that fly below media radar - but it must be a bloody huge number???? I know (I hope) that most dog-owners are responsible people, but clearly a shedload aren't. WHY are they allowed to have dogs? There isn't even a basic bloody licence system anymore and it pisses me off that there ISN'T a more robust legislation system in place. I also think they should be on leads in public other than designated areas and I swear if I hear one more quote from someone whose dog has attacked/killed a kid saying "But he is such a LOVELY dog normally", I think I'll nut my TV screen.

I was bitten badly by a German Shepherd as a teenager when simply walking home. DS1, aged 2 at the time, was sent flying (literally) when a huge dog - obv NOT on a lead - suddenly charged at him from far corner of a park and sent him off his feet high into the air. DS1 was TERRIFIED for months any time we even stepped into a bloody park. NEITHER of those 2 dog 'owners' did a thing - literally NADA. Am steaming just recalling the (huge and L/term) impact it had on DS1. Dogs are pack animals who need training, taking care of, and exercising - if people can't do that, why the fuck should they be able to HAVE dogs? And I genuinely cannot think of any friends WITH dogs who would disagree with that - they seem as angry as me at the irresponsible owners who inflict such frickin carnage. AIBU in thinking something HAS to change here????

Other thing about the very recent death is my younger DS's would LOVE to have a dog - but I know I can't afford it (food, vet's bills, etc etc) OR have the time TO properly look after it. So (& I am NOT benefit bashing here, am solely referencing this one individual) HTFuck does a Mum of 5 on benefits afford the 5 bloody dogs that just killed this child? Or is there a link between that and the fact the dogs weren't trained etc etc? And somewhere, lying in a fucking morgue, is a dead teenage girl - said to be 'unrecognisable' from the mass mauling that killed her.

I do agree with any measures to stop backyard breeding and these stupid cross/mixes that have come into fashion, but not expensive dog licencing. The private property laws have to take into account guard dogs and dogs who naturally will guard their owners, though. Before anyone sites the cost of dogs to LA's, well there are lots of things that cost, that I won't ever use or need and daily accidents from sporting events that costs the NHS a lot of money, perhaps even start to legislate DIY? Or generally stupid people's behaviour, but good dog owners should not have to pick up the bill for the mistakes of others.

YANBU. In Germany many areas (their version of counties) have laws pertaining to certain breeds that state that the owners must attend handling classes and pass a test when they get the dog and if they fail the handling test (ie can't keep their dog under strict control) or do not attend the dog is removed. All dogs have to be registered annually at the Town Hall and wear a numbered and dated identity tag provided by them. To register you have to show proof of insurance and vaccination. I never saw a stray.

Some counties ban certain breeds altogether, the area we lived in banned many types of bull terrier from being imported and if British families wanted to bring in dogs on the watch list they had to sign a declaration to say the dog had never been aggressive and attend a handling course and test.

Germany is a VERY dog friendly country. It is normal to take them in restaurants and shopping malls etc, and they have Tierparks - huge parks specifically for exercising pets. But they are incredibly strict on behaviour of dogs and owners and ownership is strongly regulated and controlled.

Fantastic place to be a dog owner as there are so many places they can go, and the UK would be a better and safer place for people AND dogs if they adopted this model.

That's a good idea coola

The problem with saying a dog has to have a hugely expensive licence is that responsible dog owners will get them but they are the people who already train their dogs and pick up the mess, the people who don't do these basics now will simply not buy the licence and probably be quite happy to risk it until they get the dog confiscated .

I think germany as coolas post suggest is goidness and it works

What gets me really annoyed it the amount of people who dont train their dogs, or train them to be vicious and use the 'the dog is a guard dog/for protection' as an excuse!

It's not a weapon fgs, its an animal!

You aren't allowed to walk around with a knife or a loaded gun (or any gun actually :D ) so why should people be allowed to walk around with a potentially dangerous animal who, by the owner's admission, is encouraged to defend them aggresively if they feel threatened.

We have a male great dane (so a pretty big dog), and near where we used to live there was an estate that was full of staffs/pit bulls/crosses of the 2. Not bad dogs in themselves but the owners used them as 'status dogs' and we used to get asked all the time when out on walks if we wanted to train our GD for fighting or breed him with their staffs/pits - presumably to be used for 'protection' and/or fighting.

Obviously we said no!

My parents owned, bred, worked and showed a very large number of pedigree dogs. I grew up with dogs around all the time but my parenst had a farm and extensive purpose built kennel facilities.

I truely believe that there are far to many dogs in towns and that there should be very strict licencing of the ownership of dogs inlcuing mandatory lessons on care, electronic chipping of dogs and insurance - basically like owning/driving a car.

The amount of dog mess in the street, large dogs living in unsuitable accomodation, obese dogs, aggressive dogs, owners who have no idea how to care for or even properly afford owning a dog is a scandal and is a nuisance/danger to the public and cruel to dogs.

I have never owned a dog myself and I won't because I live in a town and my lifestyle means I give the dog all the care and attention it needs. People buy dogs without thinking and it needs to be stopped.

I am not saying licencing is the only answer, I just feel sad that people think that cost has to affect the best decision. In Qatar you have to microchip your dog and register it against your ID with the Ministry. The chip costs about £5 and they insert them for free. If you get rid of the dog and don't register the new owner, you are legally responsible for it. We also have strict importation laws although there are plenty of pitbulls around. I particularly liked a charmer I met at the vets, an American woman with 5 pitbulls who had had their ears trimmed into little points and used to take them into compounds and let them loose to see how many cats they would kill. If you had passed me a gun at that point, I think I would have had no problem shotting her.

I don't think that it is any coincidence that the best blood lines for bigger breeds, although German in origin, come from Germany, it has been the strict breeding and transportation laws that has helped to ensure this, that and a true pride in the puppies that their dogs produce and where those puppies will grow up.

Great danes originated in Germany, their 'other name' is german mastiff :) I think that is very true birds.

In Qatar you have to microchip your dog and register it against your ID with the Ministry. The chip costs about £5 and they insert them for free

Although perhaps if the Qataris didn't have more oil money than they knew what to do with they might not be so generous...

It is a privilledge to have a dog - not a right and since we need a license to have a car then the same should be true of dogs

Agreed, in fact the arguments against remind me a lot of the arguments put forward by the pro-gun lobby in the USA - "my gun/dog is well looked after and responsibly handled, why should I suffer because somebody else is irresponsible with theirs".

Yanbu OP, stricter regulations are needed.

Re people on benefits affording dogs, apparently if you are on benefits and have a dog, you get extra money to pay for the dog. Or so my brother said

YANBU. At all.

Yy to enforcement of existing legislation, stricter regulations and licensing.

I am dying to get a dog and don't currently because I know I'd not be able to exercise it enough. I'd be unfair on the dog, on us as a family having to live with it and to the greater public.

Who on earth 'needs' 5 large dogs in a family home?? Recipe for disaster.

I also personally think there should be stocks in village squares for dog owners who don't pick up their pets poo btw

Around here, as with large families, its the very rich or very poor with dogs.

The nannies walk the fluffballs, the 'Muh-mees' walk the bouncy labs and greyhounds, and the scary blokes walk the teeth on legs. None of the above (well very very few) bother to call their dog as it hurtles at you/jumps on you/slobbers in your face or over your shoes etc.

Yanbu I have had dogs all my life and would consider myself a responsible dog owner, my dog has been to classes, has excellent recall, I always pick up poo etc

I think every dog owner should have insurance and would welcome a dog licensing scheme.

I've been on the receiving end of an over excited dog leaping all over me and what annoys me most is the owners reaction, one women laughed hysterically
whilst her horrible little dog leaped all over me and my poor dog covering us both in mud.

My dog is 9 now and is the most reliable dog I know, she has put up with children climbing all over her and rabbits curling up in bed with her but even so she is never left unattended with a child.

I'll never forget the time we were in the park (a country park not children's play park) and I took my eyes off her for a second whilst talking to another dog walker when I looked back she was making her way to a family having a picnic at the other end of the field at least 1/4 mile away I had a Fenton moment and frantically yelled for her, she ignored me completely by the time I caught up with her she was sat with the family helping herself to sausage rolls, I was mortified and apologised the family thought it was hilarious but it taught me that even a well trained and normally well behaved dog can't be 100% trusted, so when I hear people say she's normally fine/well behaved/good with children I get really cross.

It should be against the law to breed dogs without a licence. I'm sick to death of the hundreds of adverts flogging staff puppies!

But THAT is the only thing to 'grin' about. I WHOLLY agree with the poster who said a dog's owner should be culpable for that dog's behaviour - whether it's shitting on streets or attacking people. Horrified by the 6000 number of hospital admissions posted above, but NOT surprised. Ditto the number of people who have had experiences like mine & DS1's. It's clearly NOT a 'minor' issue.

YY to all who have posted re chipping; licensing; & ESP 'audit trail' of the dog.
And a HUGE YY to the frickin INSANITY of someone NOT being responsible for their dogs on 'their' property.

RIGHT NOW that teenage girl is lying cold, suffered a truly terrifying death, yet the police have already stated that the dog's owner is 'not a suspect' - IE NO criminal charges given current laws. Even though she had apparently boasted previously on FB of her dog's aggressiveness (again, WTF??); kept them cooped up 24/7 either in house or small back yard (i.e. aggression mounting); and HER dogs then killed a child.

If a burglar breaks into your house and injures himself, YOU are liable; if I (however inadvertently) hit someone with my car I would be liable. Substitute the word 'dog' with car/dodgy fence/knife and someone being killed by ANY of the aforementioned, then ME/YOU/WE are responsible. I literally cannot comprehend that simple fact does not apply here. This girl is dead. Anyone with common sense can see there is liability - but nada will happen to this woman (ALL of whose 5 children are alive & kicking) whilst another parent faces the very worst horror imaginable - the death of THEIR child.

I think the leash laws could be stricter in the UK. Over here (US) most people have underground electric fencing for their property, so that dogs cannot just run out into the street. On my last visit home to the UK, two Border Collies came running out of a house that we were passing and jumped all over for me, while I had my son in a baby carrier. I was livid. I adore dogs, I have two of my own, but I'm sorry, they can't just run into the road fifty yards from a house and jump all over passersby.

I also think there needs to be designated "off-leash times" in the parks. We have this system in Central Park. Before 9am and after a certain time in the evening, dogs can run free. It works well for me, being a dog owner, and works well for people who don't have/like dogs, or for owners whose dogs don't like other dogs.

I agree, something needs to be done.
I disagree that it is a minority that is irresponsible, judging by the amount of shit on the pavements.

it's difficult to say what though. it needs to be easily implemented and enforced.
I have also been attacked by a large dog it very nearly bit dc in the face, only the owner hancking it back saved us from a tragedy. I reported the dog but don't think anything was done about it.

As much as I'd love to see a German style system of dog parks and stricter leash laws in the UK I cannot see it happening - it would cost millions of pounds, there would be uproar.

And yes, wow, look, a dog nut owner praising leash laws! Just an hour ago my on-lead dog had an off-lead terrier run at him - we were walking in the opposite direction, it legged it up behind us, startling my dog who whipped round and darted a step towards it. Terrier threw itself on the ground and cowered. Owner comes running up and starts checking his dog over for bite wounds and giving me a filthy look. Erm. No blame here, except that my dog is big and wolfy looking. Keep your bloody yappy rat on a lead if you can't keep it under close control without.

And yes, licensing would contribute towards this oasis of fenced dog parks but only the already responsible dog owners would bother. Unless they're going to fund street patrols with microchip scanners there's nothing they can do to police it - there's already provision in place to prosecute for fouling, dogs out of control in a public place etc. but no adequate dog warden provision to carry it out.

Compulsory microchipping comes into force in 2016 in England anyway.