To think its completely outrageous for the govt to not include internet access as a necessity on the voucher programme when

[MadameDefarge]

they are now demanding all benefit applications and correspondence has to be online? I think it is disgusting. Its pushing already marginalised and often vulnerable people beyond the edge. In our Borough over 20% of folk do not have internet access. These people are generally the poor, the foreign, those with MH issues. Is this just another step to ensure the poorest most vulnerable members of society have no voice or access to services?

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

Do you really imagine they put it there so that non spending welfare claimants can access the internet!!??

You didn't really need to explain the definition of a customer to me. I have used the McD WiFi for FREE not even 2 weeks ago. Unless it is different where you are all from then I cannot emphasise this point anymore.

[EasilyBored]

Those would be the people that this government could not give less of a shit about kobay

[MadameDefarge]

Are people who are poor not vulnerable? are their children not vulnerable? Do you know the outcomes for children living in poverty? Do you have any idea? Do you know the cost to society of that? I doubt it. you seem to be plugged into the feckless poor narrative, and unable to understand poverty is not something visited on the feckless, lazy and entitled. YOU seem a deal more entitled when you are prepared to STEAL internet access from a business.

[EasilyBored]

You would be politely asked to leave any McDs round here if you just sat there using the wifi, taking up a table, not buying anything.

[MadameDefarge]

Yes they are Kobay.

[propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS]

Yanbu. I am sickened by the Tory government. Out. Out. Out.

[ParsingFancy]

Actually there's no need to talk about free laptops and bus passes to access services. You just need to not make services online only. That's the problem here.

I know it's "cheaper" to deliver online. It's also cheaper not to install ramps, lifts, induction coils, etc. But if you can't deliver your service to everyone entitled to it, you haven't actually done the job.

It's particularly pointless when discussing benefits to say "apart from the disabled and those with MH problems" because, er, who is disproportionately likely to need these services?

You have to provide means of access, eg phone or face-to-face, to meet legal requirements. What are you going to do then? Police who uses the accessible routes? The equivalent of paying someone to stand at the top of the ramp saying, "Can you provide documentation to prove you need this ramp, madam?"

[MadameDefarge]

I'm not sure you have any moral highground here, what with being a self-confessed thief.

[MadameDefarge]

But maybe I got it wrong. you used to wifi. having bought food you the money to buy. with money. which you have. righto. but do encourage others to thieve.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I cannot understand this attitude that everyone except the disabled and is a scrounger. There is unemployment, there are no jobs. In some areas it is massive unemployment. People aren't skilled enough to do the jobs there are so won't be hired. Do you really think these people and their children should starve?

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

How am I stealing internet access from a business when they offer it for free??? I pay £39 per month for wifi at home. I used it when I ducked in there to check my emails as I was expecting one with....wait for it....a job offer!!!
I HAVE been poor. THAT is why I do not accept the argument that people cannot help themselves. They CAN. But many choose not to and let people like you make their excuses.

[EasilyBored]

I suspect that they do actually think that MrsP but don't have the nerve to say it.

Back to the workhouses for all of us.

[5eggstremelychocaletymadeggs]

Yanbu it is shots and yes lots of people have really struggled with needing to phone benefits lines.

There is a poster on mnet at the moment having a nightmare having to phone them and its costing her money she doesn't have, it should be a free phone or local rate number.

Use libraries....ha haha, my local library is only open for a few hours a few days a week. The main library has a few PC's which you can use for 30mins if you book in advance and can get there in the first place.

I thank my lucky stars that I am not in that position, and we are financially OK. But its just a bit of bad luck, an accident, illness etc away for lots of people.

[Startail]

Yes our library has computers, but it's 5 miles away and our public transport is non existent. I don't know if it's free, but Ido know its always really busy.

We have large numbers of East European farm workers who, totally reasonably want to keep in touch with home.

It's not their fault that our library has only got room for three computers in a dark corner upstairs.

DD1 is 15, there have been rumours of a sensible up to date, disabled accessible library, since I moaned I couldn't use the reference section with her pushchair.

[MadameDefarge]

The solution? clearly not to make benefits only available after an online application? keep the telephone and walk in and letter writing? not hard. works now. what you can spend your voucher money on is a whole other thread, and one I beleive has been posted recently.

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

You would be politely asked to leave any McDs round here if you just sat there using the wifi, taking up a table, not buying anything.

I get it, I get it - your McDs is also on the poverty line!!! Ones in Glasgow are not, therefore it is FREE. I think this point has been exhausted.

[mummabug]

twobras how would a person with major physical disability or MH issues manage the 40 min bus journey plus 10 min walk - that is what I was trying to say.

[ParsingFancy]

HillBilly, benefit applications used to be made by walking to the local JobCentre and doing it in person. I believe some stuff could be done by post or actually at Post Offices in rural areas.

Doing everything by phone is a very recent phenomenon, and came after large computer and telecoms systems became cheap enough that call centres were invented.

Which for some of us feels very recent, but for others may have happened while they were in nappies...

[MadameDefarge]

You are stealing it because it is a service they pay for for their customers, not randoms dropping in the pick up their email. One of the reasons my business went down was spending hours on the bloody wifi I spent a fortune on while blocking tables and spending nothing.

[woollyideas]

Twobras MOST people, whether employed or unemployed have a smart phone. Too many excuses being made in my lowly opinion.

Do you really believe that? I don't know what world you live in, but most people I know DON'T have smartphones. I don't have one, my teenage daughter doesn't have one, the woman I share my office with doesn't have one, I could go on...
You are clearly lacking the empathy gene, or not living in the real world (or both?)

[EasilyBored]

The tories are 'meanies' for implying that you have no self respect if you can't fend for yourself, whilst taking away all the services that helped people to become for self reliant. They are mean for not getting that there is no point just telling someone to get a job, when there are no fucking jobs! They are mean for doing nothing about forcing businesses to offer more flexible hours so that people aren't prohibited from working due to childcare and other caring commitments. They are mean for preaching about self reliance when they get to put all their day to day living costs through their fucking expenses. They are a bunch of utter utter cunts.