To think its completely outrageous for the govt to not include internet access as a necessity on the voucher programme when

[MadameDefarge]

they are now demanding all benefit applications and correspondence has to be online? I think it is disgusting. Its pushing already marginalised and often vulnerable people beyond the edge. In our Borough over 20% of folk do not have internet access. These people are generally the poor, the foreign, those with MH issues. Is this just another step to ensure the poorest most vulnerable members of society have no voice or access to services?

[MadameDefarge]

You clearly dont grasp the concept of a "service for PAYING customers"

[Sunnywithshowers]

Are they really insisting that ALL benefit applications are online? I find that hard to believe. not only do some not have internet access, but what about the people who could do use it even if they did have access? The elderly, those with vision problems, mobility disabilities, and many more reasons?

What about them? The government (IIRC) hasn't assessed the impact on these groups.

Link here.

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

Yes the Tories are 'meanies' for expecting people to have a modicum of self-reliance and basic life skills. Change the record. It's getting boring.

Free this, free that, free courses to educate themselves, free public transport passes, free TV license now they want free internet at home.....no wonder this country is skint.

[Sunnywithshowers]

And I agree with what Easilybored said.

[ohiohello]

5 miles to the library?

are you joking?

leaving aside the disabled, which are already supported in terms of bus passes around here, allowances to pay for some of the extra costs they encounter...

What's to stop an average job seeker or crisis loan applicant walking or cycling the 5 miles to the library?

Seriously - are we saying that the average job seeker/crisis loan applicant is unable to walk for 5 miles if they set out on the day knowing they have a very important application to make online?

It's not as if this would be a daily thing, after all.

And what are we saying if the answer is that most of them wouldn't manage this?

Free laptops for all? Free broadband for all?

In other words, digging an even bigger chasm between what you get if you're being directly supported by the government vs. if you're not. And that chasm is big enough IMHO.

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

You clearly dont grasp the concept of a "service for PAYING customers"

You clearly don't grasp the concept of McDonald's WiFi is FREE. Full stop. They want bums on seats. You. Do. Not. Need. To. Buy. Anything.

[sweetkitty]

My Dad is currently unemployed, he's 59 and cannot physically do the job he once did (heavy manual labour plus he would need to go on several courses to get up to date). He has to log into some govt site every 2 days and apply for jobs. He knows there is utterly no chance of getting these jobs but he had to be seen to be actively applying for work which is fair enough. He does have Internet connection but if he didn't it would be difficult to do this.

I can see being on benefits until pension age or in workfare I don't know what the solution is.

[MadameDefarge]

Anyway Twobras, you clearly believe in one rule for you who can afford internet access at home( but who feels completely entitled to steal internet access) and another for those in desperate situations. Oh. sorry. they can thieve too.

[RedHelenB]

Twobras - it takes an hour + to fill in a benefit form for JSA (I've done it) & I need documentation with me. Now can you imagine that MacDonalds doesn't mind their restaurant filled up with non paying claimants so their actual customers can't sit down!!?? It is meant for customers, you may get away with it sometimes like going to the loo when no using a restaurants facilities but they have a right to ask you to vacate the premises if you haven't bought anything!!!

[MadameDefarge]

I am not going to fight you two bras. I want to thread to concentrate on the pertinent issues, not your sense of entitlement.

[MadameDefarge]

Apart from the fact they want PAYING bums on seats. groan.

[JakeBullet]

The poor have knackered the country's finances.....you heard it here first.

[usualsuspect]

Of course they want you to buy something, why on earth do you think they just want bums on seats?

What an odd thing to think about a buisness.

[Roseformeplease]

There was a bloke on the (Scottish) news last night who has lost his benefits as he has not applied for jobs online, as required. He is now scrounging from his mother, not the state. He was walking at a brisk pace through the city to get to her flat for his dinner. I just wanted to shout at the computer (in fact I did) LEARN YOU LAZY SOD. Surely, now there is an incentive, he will have to learn. Previously, he clearly didn't bother.

[catsmother]

Bloody hell - here we go again, the Mumsnet Marie Antoinettes crawling out of the woodwork.

Let them eat cake indeed!

I don't wish, for a minute to diminish the extra difficulty that impoverished people with mental health or disability issues face in accessing the internet, but it's wrong to ignore the problems that many others who don't fall into those categories also have.

As others have said, it's NOT as simple as rocking up to your local library or McDonald's. There are cost issues for many in getting to these places for a start and the bloody answer to that isn't "move" FFS! Locations with the most amenities and facilities tend to cost more to live in - just the thing someone who's already struggling financially wants to consider. That suggestion is an impossibility for many before you even start to consider the wider impact of schooling, loss of support network, employment considerations and so on. Many many libraries now work on reduced hours offering less opportunity to use public PCs - because they're available for fewer hours (which might not fit in with work hours) and when they are available there's more competition to get on them. Any other business offering free WIFI won't take kindly to you using their premises without also buying something (assuming you have some sort of internet device anyway). And yes, some libraries also charge for access anyway.

I love the fact that some people still believe those on the poverty line will be looked after and only have to ask for help. You only have to skim through some of the ongoing threads on here where people are practically destitute and all the asking in the world doesn't alter a thing for them. There's one poster who's disabled, has disabled children and is trying to feed them all on pence per meal.

This latest thing about all apps having to be made online is so similar to many of the other policies being introduced - where it seems to me many people are being set up for a huge fall as conditions are being imposed upon them which they literally can't fulfill - and then they get punished regardless. E.g. (sorry to divert) the bedroom tax, where HB is cut for "over-occupation" yet there are NO smaller properties for people to downsize into - either because they're not available or because landlords won't take HB tenants - so their income reduces as they're "not doing what they should" (even though they can't). And this - it's "claim and correspond online" - even though that'll cost you £5 return on the bus to get to the library and £2.50 to use the PC so your already desperate food budget gets depleted even further. As opposed to a 50p 2nd class stamp .......

And this treatment of disadvantaged people (who could be us next week if we lose our job, suffer an accident etc) should be "our problem" because it's bloody inhumane to treat people like this when they're down on their luck and struggling to meet even the most basic needs for themselves and their families. But hey - those of you who've convinced yourself that being impoverished is something people choose to be - either deliberately, or through their laziness, fecklessness etc can sleep easy and not dig deep to find a little bit of compassion and sympathy because they only have themselves to blame don't they ? Hope you're comfy in your ivory towers.

[Peahentailfeathers]

TwoBras, the wi-fi is Free. For. Paying. Customers. Not. For. Random. People. Off. The. Street. (don't worry, Madame DeFarge, most of us do understand this). If loads of people extracted the urine by using McDonald's wi-fi without buying anything, they may stop providing it.

[EasilyBored]

Who exactly do you think gets free public transport and TV license?

You know the vast majority of benefit claimants are employed, right? How about we up the minimum wage to a living wage, get rid of zero hours contracts, stop the chip-chip-chipping away at workers rights that seems to be going on at the minute. Moderate childcare so that it's actually affordable and available at the times it's needed. Put more support in place for the elderly and disabled so that people aren't giving up their jobs and living in poverty just so that they can care for their relatives.

How about everyone just stop thinking that this is something that only happens to the stupid and feckless. It's sickening that people have such little regard for their fellow man these days.

And the welfare bill makes up a tiny proportion of the state's expenditure. And the social fund an even tinier part. So stop saying it's what is making this country broke. That's like saying that the reason you are broke is not because you spend 90% of your income on your rent, it's because you spend 0.2% of your income on food.

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

You are not going to fight as you are fighting a losing argument. Clearly.

Helen I know. I have done it. I sucked it up and got on with it. I budgeted my ASS off so that I could afford internet as I knew I needed it to apply for jobs and I took any job that was going so that I could continue to. Under the tax levy and over the tax levy.

Our Grandmothers would cringe at the 'woe is me' attitude here.

[Birdsgottafly]

I am aware that it is very different for those in Rural areas, however, you can apply for benefits over the telephone (which Welfare Rights organisations will let you use), at Children's Centre's and in the Job Centre. I work/have worked for many voluntary services and am a SW, the answer is better investment in services. There are many drop in services, which, whilst stretched, can help with benefit applications\advice.

[TwoBrasDontMakeABodice]

TwoBras, the wi-fi is Free. For. Paying. Customers. Not. For. Random. People. Off. The. Street. (don't worry, Madame DeFarge, most of us do understand this). If loads of people extracted the urine by using McDonald's wi-fi without buying anything, they may stop providing it.

Not. Where. I. Am. From.

Maybe, just maybe, where I am from, people can afford the internet at home. I apologise for not being from a poverty ridden estate.

Ok?

[Creameggkr]

My ds lives alone and has just had to give up work as he is waiting for a kidney and it had become too difficult.
He is waiting to hear about DLA but not counting his chickens so in the meantime he gets 71 per week out of which he pays 20 towards his rent and ten to his phone (already had this contract when well and working full time) this leaves him 41 pounds to feed and clothe himself. He should eat a special diet. But really cannot afford it.
So a couple if quid bus fare and a coffee to use the net (surely everyone doesn't have a smart phone?) would be a days food for him.
Seriously I used to be ignorant to the actual reality of living on benefits but my eyes have been well and truly opened.

[sweetkitty]

Agree completely Easilybored well said

[Birdsgottafly]

That should have included, as well as other places. The most difficult category of people to support is those with MH problems. We are lucky in my city, as we have other organisations as well as the CAB, which provide ongoing support for those who are marginalised.

[Birdsgottafly]

That should have included, as well as other places. The most difficult category of people to support is those with MH problems. We are lucky in my city, as we have other organisations as well as the CAB, which provide ongoing support for those who are marginalised.

[BeCool]

Even in 20/30/40 years time not all people will use computers, want to use computers or be able to use computers.

Aim for a high number of online applications - fine. But to exclude people because they can't/won't use a computer is wrong.