Am I being unreasonable to want to get paid to be a surrogate?

[Geanie]

I have already been a surrogate once, I didn't get paid a penny, not even for any expenses. The parents of the baby didn't pay anything towards the pregnancy, which I was fine with at the time as I had a good job and I didn't feel that I needed any reimbursements.

I have been contacted by quite a few people asking if I am planning on doing another surrogacy soon as they are looking for a surrogate.
I do straight surrogacy and there aren't that many of us in the UK so there are always a lot of people out there looking for a straight surrogate.

I definitely want to be a surrogate again, however, since my last surrogacy I was made redundant and am now self employed doing whatever I can to earn and get by, and to be honest I am really struggling.

I use quite a few surrogacy forums online and have noticed quite a lot of UK surrogates are now asking for a specific amount of 'payment' for their part as a surrogate.

I know that it is not allowed to be paid for surrogacy in the uk, but a surrogate is allowed to be paid 'Reasonable expenses' and they are pretty easy going when it comes to what those reasonable expenses are for as long as it is under a certain amount, usually around £15,000.

When we went through all the legal stuff after my last surrogacy I was told that they don't usually even question or check up on anything under £10k, as that is considered the standard amount.

I have thought about it quite a lot and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to benefit from this, I mean realistically I am going to be giving the parents a child, and pregnancy is hard. I don't see why, as long as I am upfront about it, I cant ask for a certain amount towards my 'expenses' during the surrogacy.

I'm not looking to make a profit or buy fancy gadgets or go on holiday. I would just use the money to help pay my rent and bills during the pregnancy.

So would I be unreasonable to do this?

(I have NC for this BTW. Pom bears, the MN scarf, bum sex at centre parks on a friday, and so on.)

I believe I'm right in saying that the surrogate mother for Elton John and David Furnish also supplied expressed breastmilk for an unspecified term after the birth (frozen, couriered). To what extent do we feel a woman in that situation should be compensated?

Well I would definately pay that amount if I needed. surrogate. I wonder how many posters who disagree are struggling to conceive.........

Maryz,OP isn't charging that in the case of illness /loss of earnings,she is charging it as a basic.And she's using that to pay her rent (unchanged) and bills (barely changed by pregnancy).

OP has said it's money she will use on rent and bills...exactly as a salary is used...not that it will be used for any potential periods of being laid up with pregnancy related ailments.

It's ever so slightly patronising for every person in the UK to assume that an Indian woman is incapable of appreciating the altruistic implications of surrogacy OR that her decision should be judged by a Westerner who knows what's best for her OR that every clinic in India is out to fleece its own women OR an Indian woman is incapable of weighing the difficulties of a pregnancy against the benefits of a very significant sum of money.

If you think commercial surrogacy is always wrong, the Indian factor doesn't come into play. If you think Indian women aren't in a position to be surrogates because they are too vulnerable to make their own minds up, I have a problem.

This interview presents a very fair picture of the pros and cons of the debate:

The guidelines and legislation around surrogacy in India needs regulation and all ethical people in India - many clinic heads amongst them - would agree. To get the full picture, you should know that many women are treated very well during the time as surrogate mothers - they eat well, have children live with them and are given prompt medical attention. During the pregnancy many women have (sometimes for the first time) the opportunity to rest in complete safety. At the end of the pregnancy, women are paid a very significant amount in a form that will benefit them directly without male interference (ethical clinics buy a house/set up a bank account in the woman's name/pay college fees directly).

Sometimes I think we can be a bit precious about morality in the UK. If you shudder, weep, wail and feel strongly that a women should not be exploited, why don't you do something to change her circumstances? It's audacious to feel comfortable, even good, about telling an Indian woman she is not allowed to do something that will feed her family for five years - or buy her children an education - or put a roof over her head - for her own good.

I am just about to go to bed so will reply fully tomorrow but i just wanted to answer a couple of specific points.

I never said that I am only interested in doing straight surrogacy. I would be fully open to a gestational surrogacy.
It is just more likely that I will find parents looking for a straight surrogate as there are so many people looking for them but so few surrogates that do straight surrogacy in this country.

I would never choose parents due to their financial circumstances, I will always look for parents that I feel a connection with over anything else.

I used £1000 per month just as an example, I will organise a specific amount with the parents when I make my surrogacy arrangement, I would be just as happy with £500 per month.

At least two of my jobs are not pregnancy friendly and I would definitely have to stop doing them if I were pregnant, and I am sure any parents would support that action, as it is after all their baby that I would be protecting.
So in a way I would be losing that income as a direct result of the surrogacy.

Also being pregnant is hard work, I do a lot of walking around for my jobs, I imagine I will find it hard to keep up with it all when I am pregnant.

I dont like the idea of paying a surrogate. Expenses that cover any actual loss is fine but not to pay a "wage" as such.
If you allow surrogacy to become a form of employment for women you will then get to the stage that only the wealthy will be able to afford to have a child this way. Market demand will push the price up as it does with any bought commodity which the baby will become.

Surrogacy is a huge gift to give to someone. You are totally entitled to reasonable expenses, given the risks you are taking embarking on a pregnancy. It's time our society got real about surrogacy. If we had an honest dialogue about this and agreed reasonable expenses more women in the UK would be willing to act as surrogates.

I would have no problem whatsoever paying a fair amount to a surrogate. If the woman is going to be carrying my child for me, I would see it as part of my responsibility to ensure that she is sheltered, well fed and secure during the pregnancy and her recovery and certainly not out of pocket if she needed to stop work or reduce her hours. I found pregnancy absolutely horrible, and couldn't imagine going through that for someone else. I would however expect the agreement to be legally contracted and above board and all parties were protected. I think if there were a maximum cap on what women could charge (outside of their actual medical expenses, travel to appointments, leave from work, etc) then that might solve some of the more moral arguments if the fee is part of the 'expenses' rather than as a way for women to make money.

My DS was donor conceived. I paid a fee for the sperm, plus costs for medical treatment. Every time I hold him hear him laugh, or he smiles at me, I certainly consider that money well spent.

We can't assume that any future child will know it was born to a surrogate.
If the child is told, it may well not be told the details - e.g. that money changed hands.
The OP is intending to do something that will be life changing in a positive way for an infertile couple. Why shouldn't she receive a life changing amount of money in return?

I was having a think about this as I drifted off to sleep last night.

I'm currently about 5/6 weeks pregnant I'm in a position where I don't need to worry about cash,things like if I start to get sick or knackered ( usual for me as I've previously had issues with HG and SPD) i can manage that with rest as I don't have to force myself to go to work if I'm unwell and can afford private medical treatment. If I'm feeling bloated and miserable I can go and buy myself some cheerful maternity outfits,I've never had to turn down a normal social event or professional meeting because I don't have the correct clothing.

I have continuous access to healthy good quality food,I don't have the stress of worrying about housing or transport if I need additional help with housework or anything I can buy it in.

In an ideal world should someone else be having a baby for me then I would feel obliged to at the very least reduce the impact of them not being in the same position as me,if doing so meant providing a income so they could obtain some of these things themselves stuff like taking responsibility for bills and a roof over their head and it would be easier for me to make sure this would happen by saying "what are your monthly expenses" and paying that each month for at least 14 months to cover the pregnancy and recovery time and extended if breast milk was expressed and provided.

YANBU - carrying a child can be wonderful but also has risks associated, the fertility treatments at the beginning aren't a walk in the park, and there are a lot of time and other commitments that come with pregnancy.

In that position, i'd probably prefer to pay a surrogate as it would feel a lot fairer - plus i'd be less concerned about motivations and whether there might be issues with guardian/parentship after delivery. That said, I would probably also let me feel like I could be a little more demanding about lifestyle/health factors, which the OP/surrogate might understandably be a lot less keen on!

I used to be confused by surrogacy in a world where so many children are needing care, but having seen some wonderful friends struggle with multiple IVF cycles, a massive roster of foster kids who cycled in and out of care, and failed adoption attempts (not from their choice) I'm a lot more understanding of the surrogate path, and really admire people who can help struggling couples. Best of luck!

Katy - "But, would you be comfortable with a system whereby women could earn a living from conceiving, gestating, birthing, and relinquishing babies to people who want to pay for this service because they want a baby?"

To be honest I don't have a negative gut reaction to this, no. It's not something I've put a lot of thought into and it's clearly a HUGE issue so I don't want to say, yes, I'm OK with this. But my gut reaction doesn't throw up massively negative feelings. Not sure what that means.

God, no. I think surrogates should definitely be properly reimbursed. I don't understand why they aren't. Why on earth should it be a "gift"? Pregnancy and childbirth are hard work.

Reading this with interest.

I'm a mum of two children born through host (gestational) surrogacy. The same wonderful surrogate helped us both times. We paid her expenses, which were in the region of what is recommended, and is meant to cover travel, time off work, maternity clothing / basically anything that is incurred as a result of trying to conceive and pregnancy. We also wanted the money to cover things that would make her life easier while she was pregnant, such as takeaways, and help cleaning the house. After the birth of the baby we wanted her to go away on holiday with her family.

The expenses are checked thoroughly by a court reporter as part of the parental order process, where the mum's name (in this case mine) is put on the child's birth certificate, as the current law allows the surrogate's name to be put on initially.

It is therefore difficult to pay too much to a surrogate - there is a chance that the court won't allow the parental order if there are any suspicions of over the odds payment. Not worth the risk!

I personally don't think the expenses paid go anywhere near what a surrogate goes through. As anyone who is struggling to conceive will understand, surrogacy is amazing - I have a very close friend and two precious children as a result of it.

Re. lifestyle requests/diet requests, some intended parents do request certain things, such as organic food - this would obviously would need to be included in the expenses.

Expenses, requests, all issues relating to the baby and the pregnancy are agreed upfront before starting treatment.

We will be telling our children how they were conceived and born. If anyone wants to ask anything please PM me :)

I don't see anything wrong even if you were doing it for financial benefit. The people are strangers to you, it's not like you are doing it for a family member or close friend. You are providing a service which will take over nine months of your life. You should get paid.

Medal that's interesting about the things that make pgy easier such as a cleaner and takeaways. I'd add regular pedicures after about 30w!

Personally I don't see the issue. People who want a child pay thousands on ivf sometimes with no happy outcome. If a woman is able to provide a gift of a baby then why should they not be paid for it? We pay for everything else!

For what it's worth I would be a surrogate in a heart beat but I would expect a level of expense paid to me.

Looking at the other side if it were acceptable to pay for "renting a womb" here would likely be a lot less heart ache with those unable to conceive and may actually be a cheaper option for them.

I was once signed up with an agency for surrogacy - left as fell pregnant. If anyone is interested feel free to Pm me.

Medal - would it be included if you paid for some things directly rather than gave them to the surrogate? So if you hired and paid the cleaner (for instance) or if you bought clothes and handed them to the surrogate, would they be included in the total expenses you spent?

FWIW - I know a few people who've had DCs via private IVF, none have spent less than £10k.

Don'tmind the surrogate compiles a list of everything coming under expenses in advance, so if cleaner /maternity clothes are listed then they need to be paid as part of the expenses. If things are paid for by the intended parents directly and given there is no sensible way of monitoring this - does this make any sense!

Host surrogacy includes the costs of private IVF as well, I wasn't even entitled to a free ivf cycle from my PCT.

Horry our surrogate expressed her breastmilk for us the first couple of months with our first child, but we didn't pay separately for this. I think some surrogates in the US especially would charge for this.

I have had four surrogate children and have never once been asked to justify my expenses to a court.

I don't think paying a surrogate exploits them, or makes poor women vulnerable. Most people I talk to say there isn't a price-tag in the world that would make them capable of growing a baby for another woman.

I agree with HDEE. Only a certain type of person could do this I think, I know I couldn't even if the 'going rate' was £1million. But if you can do it, then why shouldn't you be compensated? Plenty of IVF clinics are making money out of making babies, why is it this vital (and woman only role) has to be done out of the goodness of a woman's heart. Just like bringing up children is, unvalued.

Is this a feminist issue?!

I'd pay a surrogate
I'd want to pay her
15k not enough