Am I being unreasonable to want to get paid to be a surrogate?

[Geanie]

I have already been a surrogate once, I didn't get paid a penny, not even for any expenses. The parents of the baby didn't pay anything towards the pregnancy, which I was fine with at the time as I had a good job and I didn't feel that I needed any reimbursements.

I have been contacted by quite a few people asking if I am planning on doing another surrogacy soon as they are looking for a surrogate.
I do straight surrogacy and there aren't that many of us in the UK so there are always a lot of people out there looking for a straight surrogate.

I definitely want to be a surrogate again, however, since my last surrogacy I was made redundant and am now self employed doing whatever I can to earn and get by, and to be honest I am really struggling.

I use quite a few surrogacy forums online and have noticed quite a lot of UK surrogates are now asking for a specific amount of 'payment' for their part as a surrogate.

I know that it is not allowed to be paid for surrogacy in the uk, but a surrogate is allowed to be paid 'Reasonable expenses' and they are pretty easy going when it comes to what those reasonable expenses are for as long as it is under a certain amount, usually around £15,000.

When we went through all the legal stuff after my last surrogacy I was told that they don't usually even question or check up on anything under £10k, as that is considered the standard amount.

I have thought about it quite a lot and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to benefit from this, I mean realistically I am going to be giving the parents a child, and pregnancy is hard. I don't see why, as long as I am upfront about it, I cant ask for a certain amount towards my 'expenses' during the surrogacy.

I'm not looking to make a profit or buy fancy gadgets or go on holiday. I would just use the money to help pay my rent and bills during the pregnancy.

So would I be unreasonable to do this?

(I have NC for this BTW. Pom bears, the MN scarf, bum sex at centre parks on a friday, and so on.)

I agree with everything MaryZ has just said.

I don't see how you are expecting reasonable answers from women who have very little idea about surrogacy.

I am very keen to become a gestational surrogate soon and would rather do it by the book, like every other surrogate in England. In other countries people are paid for donating blood, organs and babies...

I wouldn't be paid to become pregnant with my own child so would not expect to be paid to become pregnant with a child that was not biologically mine.

I am also self employed so this is all interesting reading.

YANBU

I'm normally really conservative about reproductive issues but I think you deserve to get a five-figure amount for this. Pregnancy is no small sacrifice and the cost to you is more than just some maternity clothes and taxi rides. If I were a parent looking for a surrogate, I would feel quite bad about you working six jobs while pregnant with my baby and then giving you just a few hundred pounds. I think it's completely reasonable that they contribute to your living expenses because they are the baby's living expenses too.

If the amounts you quoted are standard for surrogates I don't see why you should feel guilty about them. A lot of people here are obviously uncomfortable with the idea of straight surrogacy. There is a reason that the courts would consider these seamingly high amounts reasonable. Women are very good at undervaluing our contributions to society. Your career, health, and whole life will be affected by this.

Maryz I know the facts. I just don't think it's right to purposely conceive a child for the purposes of earning a living.

It's true that lots of children are conceived for selfish purposes, or unwanted and neglected. That doesn't make any difference.

The OP wants to earn enough money to pay her living expenses and she is wondering if conceiving a child and selling it to someone is a viable option. That it's not for "fancy gadgets and holidays" also makes no difference. I don't clean toilets because they enable me to buy fancy gadgets and exotic holidays. I do it to pay my rent and living expenses. I am selling my labour and there's nothing altruistic about it, no matter how much I care about my customers and have benevolent feelings about helping them.

To be honest, I'm not that comfortable with sperm and egg donation, either. But what the OP is describing is clearly in the realm of selling a baby.

If this were legal, and surrogates could demand whatever the free market would bear, then there would be no doubt that people would see this as "how much it costs to get a baby." The pain and anguish that people who desperately desire a baby doesn't change that. In fact, it has happened in certain times and places that people have literally bought babies. Where there's a demand, and a supply, there is a market. And that is wrong.

Someone upthread brought up a comparison to prostitution. I think that surrogacy such as what we see in India, where it is done for profit, is very like prostitution. I don't think that prostitution is right, either. People are not commodities.

Agree again.

I grew up with my paternal Grandmother, I was completely unwanted by my Mother. I think the only damage there was the damage caused by my Mother while I was with her, not fucked up at all that I wasn't wanted by her.

Quite a lot of adopted children are fucked up by their lives before adoption.

Quite.

I can vouch for this. I won't go into details on here as I'd hate for my biological parents or adoptive parents to be ripped apart (and frankly its not anyone's business) but the above is true.

It's such a grey area. On one hand, I feel amazed by the generosity of someone carrying someone else's child and do feel that reasonable pregnancy related expenses should be met. On the other hand, if you're turning it into a job and expecting the surrogacy fee to cover your other expenses (housing etc), it's not far off selling a baby.

The OP wants to earn enough money to pay her living expenses and she is wondering if conceiving a child and selling it to someone is a viable option. Please point out where the OP said this. Jesus there are some twisty fuckers on here.

Yes, allowing someone to have the opportunity to have a family when they wouldn't before is like prostitution...

No, it's not. It's just in this country it's okay to recieve payment for one of those things and not the other.

As for comparisons with adoption: I think the way the UK forbids open adoption is wrong. But, I don't think that adoption "fucks up" children at all. I know plenty of perfectly contented adopted people and plenty of adopted people with a few "issues" about it but are primarily happy. And, even taking into account the unfortunate people who feel they have been harmed by the process, I think it's the best solution to a certain situation, considering the alternatives.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for expenses to cover loss of earnings, any medical expenses and travel expenses you occur. I do start getting uncomfortable with the idea of very large sums of money changing hands. Ultimately everyone needs to be able to look the grown child in the eyes and be able to to show them in complete honesty that everything was above board with no grey areas, no hints of baby buying etc. The baby deserves to be at the forefront of everyone's minds when making decisions.

The case in the US was difficult, partly because they did not define serious disability, but also because you can't force someone to have an abortion. If they asked for an abortion and she refused, they could sue for breach of contract and get money from her (although not in this case because they did not define serious disability and she was not therefore in breach of contract), but you cannot legally force medical procedures on a non-consenting person, so she could never be compelled to actually have an abortion (or indeed NOT to have an abortion, they could not have prevented her getting an abortion if she had wanted one).

To be honest, all these cases only confirm my opinion that the UK laws which stipulate the surrogate is the mother, are entirely right. If you carry a baby inside you and given birth to it, you are unquestionably the mother of that baby. If you are a surrogate and transfer custody to the new mother and the father, then fine. But the birth of a baby is life changing and a surrogate is entirely entitled to change her mind following it. If she changed her mind and the baby was taken anyway, it would be kidnap. Of course it would be very sad if she changed her mind and devastating for the intended mother. And the father would be entirely entitled to ask for access to his child. But we must respect the birth mother as the mother.

Those who talk about buying a baby know that it takes more than an egg to make a baby, right? Would it only be the intended mother buying the baby or do you think that the father is buying the baby his sperm created?

SchroSawMargeryDaw There are clinics in India where poor women gestate babies for rich families. The level of coercion they are under is not clear, but it makes me uncomfortable. Measuring the ethics of the situation by how happy the richer, more powerful party in the arrangement is makes no sense.

KatyTheCleaningLady The UK does not forbid open adoption. Indeed social services facilitate open adoption with letters in most adoptions, and visits in cases where it is in the childs best interests. The childs interests are the decider when it comes to open adoption in the UK. I have an open adoption with 2 of my three children (actually my (under 18) daughter and her mother are in direct unspervised contact with facebook and visits right now)

OddBoots That's why I don't see it as selling a baby and just the Mother's time and health, the child is still going to a biological parent.

Maryz I may be wrong, then. I was under the impression that a pregnant woman cannot decide before giving birth that she does not want to raise the baby, herself, and then select who will be the adoptive parents.

That is the norm in the US, and even that can be fraught with difficulties as the pregnant women are often more vulnerable than those who are in a position to adopt.

Katy Although you mentioned the Indian clinics, you specified where it is done for profit.

Perhaps more women in this country would consider becoming surrogates if they didn't feel they were at risk financially for doing so.

Oldboots I would say that the biological father would also be buying the baby.

How on earth could a biological parent buy their own baby?

SchroSawMargeryDaw Well, I don't think those Indian women are "buying fancy gadgets and exotic holidays." I think they're getting living expenses that would be for a standard of living below what any of us would enjoy. They are doing it primarily for money, of course. But, if someone in this country talks about wanting "basic living expenses" then it's the same thing. Like I said, I clean in order to pay my "basic living expenses." I have no illusions that I do what I do for a profit.

I think this is a very interesting thread. You will have some loss of earnings, some expenses, the responsibility to live well/healthily, and the physical toll of getting your body back, and not least of all, providing someone with that longed for baby they are not able to create themselves. I don't see why this would have to be a gift. I think they should pay your living expenses, rent, food, transport, etc., maybe for a year (pregnancy plus some recovery time). Besides, as some of the discussion has highlighted, it's not as if you are getting pg and then advertising it as a baby for sale. This baby is wanted by specific people from the start. It's your body, your time, I think you should get paid... and it wouldn't bother me if you made a profit, again, you're not advertising a baby for sale, you are helping specific people to have their dream come true. I'm sitting here on the side of 3 mc's, no children, and thinking about this made me think that if I am unable to have children and decide to go down the surrogacy route then I imagine wanting to look after that woman very well for the year she developed my LO, that it would be my gift to her and not (only) the other way around.

Katy Open adoption means contact. Yes a pregnant woman cannot select adoptive parents for her baby (unless we are talking relatives because SS prefer relative placements and would support adoption with safe relatives) but that is not open adoption.