to be sad that my DD has now passed gender discrimination 101?

[ICBINEG]

My DD can now accurately pick out the boys and girls in her peer group (age 1-2). Presumably she has successfully identified that boys and girls are dressed differently/have their hair cut differently.

This is entirely due to adult imposed gender discrimination, as she a) isn't looking at them naked, b) can't possibly be detecting the very subtle actual differences in behaviour/appearance.

So lets hurry onto the next lesson:

Society expects girls and boys to behave differently and have different interests, strengths and weaknesses.

Before I could at least wonder if, when she saw in books that all the girls are doing different things to the boys, she might not realise which was which and specifically which group she was 'supposed' to be in. Now I know she will be learning exactly what is expected of her every time a tired old stereotype is rolled out.

freddie this is not about individuals actually being more or less likeable.

This is an identical CV being judged as less competent and more likeable when NOTHING has changed except the name on the top.

Apprently it is rude to ask what I might have missed in the thread .

For the same reason that people generalise about all sorts of groups? But it's wrong when applied to individuals?

All you've done there is pick out the arguments you were hoping to find when you started the thread. You've completely ignored anything you didn't want to see.

I'm out.

I think the pay gap is more to do with women having babies and maternity leave than attitudes but when I worked in marketing I definitely came across the idea that ambitious women are ruthless or 'bitchy' but for a man to be ambitious or even aggressive it was desirable. That was ten years ago though and I think this is changing. Look at Deborah Meaden and Hilary Devey on Dragons'Den. I don't think Hilary is diminished in anyway because she rocks a nice frock either.

Oh, and in the past boys were very pretty and wore make up wigs and heels. And pink was traditionally the colour worn by boys and blue by girls because pink was seen as more aggressive colour And blue was calming so gender stereotyping has nothing to do with the actual colour pink.

I think Freddie very sensible. Wait and see what child you have and respond to them, rather than try and mould the one you want to your expectations.
Mothers who prose on with their own agenda-without listening to the child will get problems.

This thread is a perfect example of an OP who is projects. Over-thought, neurotic and frankly too much. OP, there are bigger thing to worry about in life.

'Who projects'

fwiw I grew up abroad where there was far less gender discrimination in children's clothing; at the age of 5, we all wore the same blue jeans and stripeytops, we all climbed trees and built go-carts together, and boys had much longer hair than they do now. I can assure you by the age of 5, I was still able to pick up subtle gender differences. A 5yo is not a baby.

Your HV is going to love you when you take your DD to her 2 year check... perhaps someone should warn her/him. At DD's she was asked to point out which were boys and girls so it appears that they do measure some of a DCs development on being able to differentiate. Are you going to start an argument with the HV about it aswell?

BTW, DD is 3.5, her favourite colours are Black, Orange and Yellow and she takes a Fireman Sam bag to school. She also insists that she's Batman. She is just reacting to what her friends do (whatever gender they are), I think it's as they get older that they generally partake in 'gender specific' choices (princessy things etc) at the moment, they do whatever any of their friends do!

You do know, that at some point, no matter what her sexuality, whether she is heterosexual, lesbian, metrosexual or any other flavour of sexuality, at some point, identifying the gender to which she is attracted is going to be an essential life skill, don't you?

I think talking to people helps with that, Freddie ;)

erm how did people get the impression I am trying to stop her being able to identify girls from boys?

If I had wanted to do that I would have deliberately called them the wrong things for the last year....

Also how am I forcing her to be anything? She has some of everything and gets to wear and play with whatever she wants.

If that turns out to be pink glitter then so be it.

randal right - so you could have reiterated what I missed and I would have responded or you could call me rude and flounce.

Nice choices there....

Over-thought, neurotic and frankly too much. OP, there are bigger thing to worry about in life.

Exactly. Enjoy your DC-go out and fly a few kites-get muddy-have fun and stop worrying about it. She will be what she will be-and that is very often not what our mothers want to us to be!

Okay one more time.

You write a CV, you send it to 200 people. 100 get the CV with a male name attached. 100 get the CV with a female name attached.

You ask how employable, competent and likeable the person is. You ask how what salary you think they should be on.

You find that people reading the CV with the female name think the IDENTICAL CANDIDATE is:

20% less competent
20% less employable
10% more likeable
and should be earning 10% less

Actually I do think it is quite important that my DD will one day apply for a job and may be rejected based solely on gender.

But yeah...let's go fly a kite....

OP you clearly have too much time on your hands I have a to do list a mile long maybe you could come and help.

I would have more sympathy if my very personable, intelligent DS, with a 2:1 degree could find a job.

I would like to address the problem of getting all young people into work-there are no jobs for them. Full stop.

Actually I do think it is quite important that my DD will one day apply for a job and may be rejected based solely on gender.

And that really is utter bollocks! I am at that stage-knowing many young adults and it simply isn't true.

I would go and fly kites-much better than making women into victims. Why not go and fly kites and make her into a strong young woman who know her own mind?

knows her own mind. (rather than knowing her mother's mind and having to please her for a quiet life?)

And as the mother if 3 sons I find it almost insulting for you to suggest that they will walk easily into jobs whilst dd will struggle. Firstly have you read about underachievement of boys in schools and the huge issues this causes. Secondly my dc's are individuals who will face a variety of indivudual challenges regardless of their sex and you op seem keen to turn your daughter into a victim instead of her own persin.

Icbineg - if gender is only one characteristic and only a teeny part etc - agree totally.

You might want to stop focussing on it yourself. (Which I don't mean to be rude but you are totally over thinking this)

I'll bet you a pound to a penny my tomboy DD goes further in life and gets jobs easier and earns more than DS2. That's because of her personality and academic ability, not her gender.

I understand the point you're making that differences in character between the sexes should not be invented or vastly over-exaggerated.

But the wearing of clothes at all times is a social construct. It hides most of the biological sex of young children, as their sex is less easy to work out from faces than it is in adult faces. As children know that adults have a biological sex from looking at them, isn't is quite natural that children would want to know the biological sex of each other as it is a basic human category? As we have hidden their bodies from each other other, why shouldn't many parents choose instead to show that information through haircuts or certain clothes?

It seems bizarre to not comment on the social rule that we hide parts of children's bodies from each other at all times, but then object to parents finding other ways of passing on that information.

hobnobs...just what I was going to say. The whole deal in school now is that boys are under-achieving and demotivated because the whole balance of education shifted towards girls,who are now the ones more likely to get A*.

We have to make sure that activities will appeal to boys as well as girls. That is not an easy task.

There has been a computer club for girls at our primary ,for some years(CC4G). The have now had to start CC4B so the boys have the same. Why not just have "computer club" for everyone?

I have 2 boys and a girl. I think the environment is geared up for girls far more than it is for boys, in this country .