Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu to not feel like paying her?

26 replies

poopadoop · 25/03/2013 00:39

sorry if this is really boring.........
a very nice woman minds our dds (6 and 3) 3 afternoons a week - monday, tuesday and wednesday. She has another commitment as well and so for the last few weeks she has not been able to do the final 2 hours on a tuesday, but we liked her so much we still paid her the same, and she babysat for us for free one night as a sort of pay-back.
Anyway, last week I asked if she could do weds, thurs, fri this week instead of her usual mon, tue, wed as dh and I had work stuff on. She said yes, so we made our plans, but then she got in touch today to say she couldn't do it, followed by an email saying she hopes she can still do full hours this week as she needs the money.
We've managed to arrange cover from family etc and I've emailed her back to say that, and that maybe we could talk by telephone about the situation.....she wants her full pay but isn't available on the (un)typical days she thought she'd be free on.
She is fantastic with the dcs but her saying she can and then can't do these days has been a complete PITA, and while I don't want to 'lose' her I don't really feel like paying her for days that she won't actually be working.......aibu?

OP posts:
nokidshere · 25/03/2013 00:42

Maybe she realised that Friday is a bank holiday and that made a difference? Although I am at a loss as to why she wouldn't just say that.

anothershittynickname · 25/03/2013 00:44

Unless she is ofsted registered then this arrangement is illegal! (Unless she looks after them I'm your home)

To determine if you are BU I would need to know what it states in your contract!

Original poster
poopadoop · 25/03/2013 00:44

sorry - she said she could do friday, just not wednesday and thursday. We have the kinds of jobs that include working bank hols

OP posts:
CSIJanner · 25/03/2013 00:49

YANBU to feel like not paying her as she hasn't fulfilled her full working comditins for you the last couple of weeks and she's agreed to different days only to retract now. It's only human to feel narked when mucked around.

But the real question is do you have a contract with her? If you do, then it doesn't matter how you feel about the matter, you'll be legally obliged to pay her.

Icelollycraving · 25/03/2013 01:00

Ok,is she a registered cm? You should have a contract. Friday is bank holiday so unlikely she will do that at usual rate.
There are times with childcare that you need to suck it up. It pisses me off we pay for the time between Christmas & 2nd Jan as it's their holiday at nursery. Dh & I can't take holiday as it is our busiest time. You have to just write it off as annoying but worth keeping good childcare.

myBOYSareBONKERS · 25/03/2013 01:20

Difficult situation. I personally don't care if she is registered or not. I have an arrangement with two friends for child care and the boys are far happier there and better cared for then the local breakfast club I tried.

Anyway....... she originally agreed and has now backed out. Speak to her and explain your disappointment and if she wants the pay then she owes those hours.

If you don't have a contract already, this might be an ideal opportunity to work one out between you as you need each other equally.

KobayashiMaru · 25/03/2013 01:27

You don't pay people depending on your whims or whether you feel like it. Hmm
Pay her according to her contract. If you don't have one, you should get one now.

Original poster
poopadoop · 25/03/2013 08:37

sorry - she minds them in our house, it developed from a babysitting situation so we never organised a contract, she has only been minding them in this way for a little over a month, and as I said a week into that she changed one of the days to do a few hours less but we kept paying the same amount as a sort of goodwill gesture. We have now to find someone else to cover the days we needed her this week

OP posts:
EmmelineGoulden · 25/03/2013 08:47

If this has just started you need to decide how important reliability is to you compared to using this particular woman. If reliability is important you you probably shouldn't pay her for the non-worked hours.

You need to have a good conversation with her about why she's mucking you about and whether she's ever going to be able to be the sort of carer you need. She may not really have a clue about working for someone. Be unaware of how important reliability is and just not realize she's jeopardising things by not prioritizing her work when she needs money. In this case she may change if you point that out to her. Or she may be in a situation where, regardless of how important the money is, other commitments are more important to her. In which case look for someone else.

CloudsAndTrees · 25/03/2013 09:18

She has no right to try and make you feel guilty about her needing full pay. If she wants full pay, she needs to do the full number of hours. If she can't do the hours you need her for, that's down to her. She doesn't deserve to be paid for work she hadn't done.

DiscoDonkey · 25/03/2013 09:24

Tbh you need to sit down with her and clarify your needs. Either she is available for specific hours or she's not. In turn though you cannot reasonably expect to change the days you want her and then not pay her if she can only do the previously agreed hours.

Or agree that you want flexibility and discuss how you can achieve that so everyone is happy.

EggyFucker · 25/03/2013 09:27

I'm sorry, but this is what you can get when you use an unprofessional, unregistered childminder

fluffyraggies · 25/03/2013 09:29

A month! I imagined from your OP that she had been minding for you for ages and had now changed the day. This kind of makes it easier then ...

It is still early days in this arrangement and you need to sit down with her now and 'start fresh' as it were. Sort out your needs and her ability to meet them ... or not.

montymum · 25/03/2013 09:30

So she can't do the Wednesday and Thursday but she usually does Wednesday anyway doesn't she?

lisad123everybodydancenow · 25/03/2013 09:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jelly15 · 25/03/2013 09:37

What you are both doing is wrong. You either employ her properly as a nanny at your house or she registers as a childminder, long process. If she was official you would have a contract in place covering hours, pay etc. Sounds to me you are getting cheap childcare so you can expect a shoddy service.

StanleyLambchop · 25/03/2013 09:38

I can't quite understand what your gripe is- you had agreed days that she worked, you needed to change them, she said she could agree to the change at first, then found she could not do them. Is that the problem?

Maybe she should not have agreed to work them if she could not commit, but, things come up, situations change, which is presumably why you had to change her days in the first place. If it is all right for you to change the days she works, surely she has the right to say no if it is not convenient to her?

So I think you are both possibly being a bit unreasonable. You need to tell her the days you want covered, and stick to them. If you don't need her for the agreed days then you need to pay her anyway- it is not her fault so she should not lose out. If you need different hours then it should be by agreement. I don't think you can expect her to sit around keeping her days off free for you just incase you need to change the arrangements. Communication of what you both want is surely the key here?

DontmindifIdo · 25/03/2013 09:39

You shouldn't pay her for days she can't work.

I suggest you start looking for alternative childcare options, it doesn't matter how great she is with your DCs if she's not with your DCs when you need her to be.

clam · 25/03/2013 09:48

I must have misunderstood this then - I thought she was asking if she could do the original days (M, T, W) instead of W, Th, F, so she could still be paid, even though presumably you don't technically need her.

StanleyLambchop · 25/03/2013 09:51

Thats what I thought too Clam, hence my comment about it not being her fault if she is not available on the new days that OP would like her to work.

clam · 25/03/2013 10:02

I suppose with an official set-up, I think most people would be expected to pay if a CM is available to work. This lady is available on her 'normal' expected days (M, T, W) and it's you who wants to change things. The fact that she initially agreed to switch clouds the issue, however.

ENormaSnob · 25/03/2013 10:03

She doesn't sound very professional or reliable to me.

SweetSeraphim · 25/03/2013 10:19

She's not professional though is she? She's doing the OP a favour!

SarahBumBarer · 25/03/2013 10:40

It's not a favour when you get paid for it.

This is a nightmare in the making OP.

Have you thought out whether she is an employee or a contractor? Have you thought about tax, registration with HMRC, liability insurance. What if she gets sick - will she still expect to be paid? All is great when it is going great but it is when there is a problem or a dispute (and you are hitting problems very early on into this arrangement) that it all comes back to bite you on the arse.

kkoo · 25/03/2013 14:18

You seem to have a very informal arrangement, neither party seems to know what's expected, allowable or agreed. It is early days, there is still time to resolve this situation. I would have a meeting with her and see if your needs and her avialbility are still compatible.
If so, make it more formal so you all know here you stand with day swapping, contracted hours, overtime etc.
If not, maybe look at hiring a nanny or working with a childminder on a more formal basis. A professional nanny or cm will tend to have a clear way of working, set contract and probably be more reliable.

I'm afraid this is what you get when you have an ad hoc or informal, friendly arrangement and then expect professional service.
Good luck.