to wonder where you are going to put the children?

[Unacceptable]

I read on here (and hear in RL) so often the delightful phrase

"don't have children if you can't afford them" or some similar line, always when putting down families who claim benefits.

Parents who at one time could afford to have DC but then through a change in circumstance: be it a DH deciding he'd actually rather bugger off and live the life of Riley without contributing towards his DC (my situation) or a DH being diagnosed with a terminal illness (close friend) can no longer support DC without some assistance shouldn't have those DC as they can't afford them?

Can anyone on here who has ever trotted out that line please tell me what they would like these Parents to do with their children?

And no, NOT all of them would be able to get a job that pays enough to raise a family without TC's. In my local area, a supermarket managers job only brings in £22k pa before tax. You can imagine what the store cleaners or checkout people are on - £12k pre tax for a FT job!

Well said couthy Make people poor then punish them for being poor. Criticise them for doing anything that's in anyway fun or entertaining or joyous.

Boohoo,

I always snigger a bit when I see the conveniently spaced out crap as well. And occasionally I can even be arsed to reply to it but even when you point out that the expected to seek work youngest child age has changed so frequently in the last few years that it makes it impossible for anyone still to be doing it ( from this year you would have to have one every year but no more than 4 times due to the cap or more likely twice if you private rent)

But they just won't have it. They still insist that they know people who are doing just that and they had a conversation about it just this morning with a feckless single parent whose been doing it years and is openly admitting that she's intending to carry on.

FasterStronger

be responsible for the ones you have as best you can and don't have more until you are able to provide for them.

Fine, but best said to men, eh?

I'm thinking of doing that myself sock. Being an LP is a piece of piss, why not just have another one? It's not like they cost loads of extra money or time or stress or anything like that.

Although unless sperm can get though double glazed windows I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to go about it.

I do think our society vilifies single mothers.

I think that a few years ago there was a campaign in the US against "deadbeat dads" who don't provide for their children, and they are the ones I would like to see the likes of the Daily Mail moaning about.

But in the UK, it appears that it's bitter and twisted women who are keeping the fathers away from children, rather than the fathers who are not bothering to provide for and have contact with their children.

Line - best said to parents.

My DC's father is a deadbeat dad, but in the UK he is allowed to believe he is a valiant hero.

there are so few families where no one has worked for 3 generations, if any.
Statistically insignificant, a relatively tiny amount of tax burden and not even close to being the reason we're in economic meltdown.

It's almost as if the rich and powerful want us to be too busy hating people on benefits to put our energies into hating the people who have the power to change all this.

Waff It's almost as if the rich and powerful want us to be too busy hating people on benefits to put our energies into hating the people who have the power to change all this.

I disagree. I think the govt (of whatever politics) is fairly powerless against the global forces that drive our economy. of course politicians aren't going to admit that.

we have the triple whammy of global competition driving down wages in real terms, the debt crisis (all of it, from the Euro, US, to personal debt) and an aging population.

Never worked. Okay, don't think that would be the case in the older generation, def the kids and grandkids (grandkids in their twenties) but the older generation maybe not worked for a long time. It is hard the way things are going. I had to use benefits when I was younger and thank god for them. I was very proud to eventually be self sufficient again. I agree with being able to afford your lifestyle. I agree you cannot see whats next. We are all going to regret allowing things to get so big. Global economies, huge hospitals, merging police forces, massive supermarkets etc etc. We lose control when things are too big. mutter, mutter, shakes head, sounds like PIL.

what
really fucks me off is people who think being able to afford kids is
being wealthy. What about those who realistically are stuck on shit
wages for the forseeable future, how dare anyone tell them they don't
deserve to have children because they're poor, unlucky or whatever?

in fact, what couthy said.

Waff in the book 'Chavs' (demonisation of the working class) by Owen Jones he makes exactly that point

The people the OP refers to are exactly the people the benefits system was designed to support as a safety net while they get back on their feet.

What it was NOT designed to do is provide and income for someone who want's to stay at home with the kids and not go to work, expecting us hard workers to support them.

Of course if you already have kids and fall on hard times, you deserve help but you have no business having kids when you are already reliant on handouts!

I'll have to disagree with worra and many other posters (sorry ), I saw this exact same thing the OP is talking about on the UC Credit thread hopes I have the right one. One lovely sympathetic poster said you shouldn't have children if you can afford them or if you couldn't afford them if your circumstances change.

I saw that as well Kelly. And they was a different Poster saying it on a different thread last week.

Of course if you already have kids and fall on hard times

That makes it sound like an accident, though, not the calculated behaviour indulged in by my ExH. Why is he never questioned on why he had children? Why is he never fully called to account?

And I don't mean that ^^ as a personal whinge, I mean being called to account politically, structurally, economically.

As many others have already commented I think the phrase you object to is aimed at those who choose to have children when they have no way of being able to support them without state assistance. Generally I think that most people believe that support from the state should be for those individuals who find themselves in just the circumstances you mention.

I'm sure many people would like to have larger families but make the decision to have 1 or 2 due to finances, housing etc. It's irresponsible to continue having children when you do not have the means to care for them; ultimately it's the poor children who suffer.

I think the stereotype is of families where 3 generations have never worked rather than being workless at the moment.

Exactly. I do go on about this, but it gets my goat that the government made up these 'problem' families and now everyone keeps moaning about them! There are no such families. Organisations have searched for them.

Line, yes, the advice - if it had any merit, which it doesn't - would be better directed at random inseminators.

Oh no garlic don't forget there are 120 thousand of them and there still managed to be that many when the gov changed the criteria to be considered as troubled.

Yet the dwp couldn't find them.

You know, when I was a kid it was usual for people to spout vile hatred about 'blacks' and 'coloureds', then add something about Nelson down the road who, of course was not like them and a decent chap. This was highlighted as a sure sign of bigotry.

Just thought I should point this out to the many who say "Most feckless parents, yadda yadda ... but not you, you're different."

YY, Sock. When will everybody realise we're being governed by a bunch of blatant liars?