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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be worried about Universal Credit

968 replies

idiuntno57 · 23/03/2013 20:21

I am in the lucky position of not needing to claim this but I am so worried about its implementation.

Its coming in in the Autumn and is going to be an online only, monthly, postdated payment. It will be paid to one adult in the family unit.

All well and did if you are god at managing your money, internet literate and in a stable relationship. But in the real world....

How are the most vulnerable in society going to have a chance with this?

Already the council tax changes are coming in and as far as I understand people are confused and shell shocked by it. UC is much bigger and no one is prepared.

OP posts:
CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 25/03/2013 18:24

Sorry for the sarcasm. I apologise too. I'm a bit touchy today. I can't think why...

skinnywitch · 25/03/2013 18:33

Lets draw a line. I'm here to support and lend an ear. What, practically, can we do/

VictorTango · 25/03/2013 18:40

Nothing can be done.

It will be bought in. People will be made homeless. Kids will go hungry.

The best you can hope is that Labour win in 2015 and can reverse some of the mess quite quickly.

whattimestea · 25/03/2013 18:44

I got the letter on Saturday informing us of the benefit cap. It comes into force for us between July and September too. We lose roughly about £90 per week. The cut comes automatically from our housing benefit - which we have to top up already as we private rent and the costs are so high. The helpful advice on what to do to avoid the increased costs to us are 'find cheaper accommodation'! Ive never posted on here about it cos of the pretty vicious reactions to people on benefits that Ive seen on MN. My DH worked a 50hour week til an injury last year that he's still having medical treatment over. I had our youngest DC last year - we've 5 DCs. All our kids were had when financially we were good. Im looking for work myself tho my earning potential is small as i have no qualifications. Was never an issue as DH earned enough. Also searching for this miraculous cheaper accommodation too! DH will have to return to a very physically demanding job before he is fit to do so. Its all very worrying.

MisForMumNotMaid · 25/03/2013 18:59

Wouldn't wish on anyone suddenly finding yourself on your own with DC reliant on benefits. My DC were 1 and 3 when XH decided he couldn't cope. I'd just secured funding for a business that gave us as a family financial stability potential. I lost most of my funding because XH walked out, i then had tax credits to help the shortfall.

Before DC i had paid higher rate tax for some years. DS1 was born with various issues and whilst I returned to my career after he was born XH couldn't cope with his care, feeding/ suckling issues. Nurseries couldn't cope with him either but he was 6 before his disability was fully diagnosed, 3 when school called in the experts with quite a clear understanding it was ASD and he had full time 1-1 support.

I'm remarried and with diagnosis we are able to get more support as a family now. The thing is we are able to put food on the table even with blips in support.

Before diagnosis things were hand to mouth, DS has sleep issues, i was shattered dealing with divorce and trying to keep the house (we sold it in the end), i tried to keep my business going but never managed two days without going i to school to deal with an issue around DS and nursery/ wrap around care wasn't available for him diagnosis or not. Politely I was told by more than one place, after he'd tried out session that they were full. My younger sons nurseries manager agreed to have him in her office with her 1 day a week so I could attempt to work. Life was so tough, we didn't turn the heating on at home unless we had to. We made choices between value nappies/ basic brands (more washing for leaky value nappies) and luxuries like value yogurts.

I can sort of understand people talking about benefit choices and that people shouldn't choose to live on them as a lifestyle choice but i've never met a person who has.

Its not as clear cut as the government currently appear to be implying it is.

Like couthys position when you're in the process of being assessed between being disabled and not being. You're still the same person, you still need to eat, be warm, have a roof over your head.

The realities are that over a period of a year or so the benefits are leveled out but you can be left in horrendous limbo whilst investigated where the rug is pulled from under you, everything stops whilst you're supposed to be a benefits expert and know what you can apply for instead. Even if you do then apply for the things you're then entitled to theres a payment delay. You may then get a big payout that if you're lucky enables you to pay back family/ friends if unlucky pays back the payday loan type companies but leaves nothing for you resulting in more loans and a vicious circle is created.

I'm scared for how people will cope and how society will cope with the strain of the knock on behaviour of people struggling. Be it misbehaving children at school whose lives are being turned upside down or those who feel that crime for a quick buck is there only option.

idiuntno57 · 25/03/2013 19:11

What we can do:

Lobby our MP's and Councillors for change

Talk about the issue to people - A LOT. Part of the problem is that no one really knows what is going to happen and it is going to be difficult to prepare. The more people talking about this the more likely things will change

Think about how you can help (if you are in a position to do so). Donate to local food banks, volunteer at your local CAB, get involved with your Church and outreach projects etc. etc.

Think about the issue and what it really means to people (reading a lot of these posts will be an eye opener for many who phrase everything in terms of benefit 'scroungers)

The welfare state is a safety net for anyone who really needs it. It is what defines us as a civilised society. We should be proud of it and, if that isn't strong enough just think about what might happen if it wasn't there and you needed it.

Please lovely mumsnetters lets pull together and try to do a proper good thing.

OP posts:
VictorTango · 25/03/2013 19:19

"The realities are that over a period of a year or so the benefits are leveled out but you can be left in horrendous limbo whilst investigated where the rug is pulled from under you, everything stops whilst you're supposed to be a benefits expert and know what you can apply for instead. Even if you do then apply for the things you're then entitled to theres a payment delay. You may then get a big payout that if you're lucky enables you to pay back family/ friends if unlucky pays back the payday loan type companies but leaves nothing for you resulting in more loans and a vicious circle is created."

This was me 6 months ago. Exactly this.

VictorTango · 25/03/2013 19:21

whattimestea - If you don't mind me asking, how much is your rent? I live in the South East and rents are ridicoulous. I'm wondering how many families I know received a similar letter and will be needing help.

VictorTango · 25/03/2013 19:51

I've just been reading up on the Mumsnet page about UC.

It really does damage employee rights:

Other sanctions will be applied if:
There is a failure to undertake mandatory work activity without good reason
There is a failure to apply for a particular vacancy without good reason
There is a failure to take up an offer of paid work without good reason
Paid work ceases by reason of misconduct, or voluntarily without good reason
Pay is lost by reason of misconduct, or voluntarily without good reason

Concern: Creating a workforce that lives in fear of losing low-paid jobs may lead to abuses and erode employees' rights. The fact that universal credit will not top-up payments for claimants involved in pay disputes may indicate a bias towards the rights of the employer.

Your employer will be able to ask you to do anything (eg work extra hours for no pay) and you will be forced to do as you will be in fear of losing your benefits.

If you are part of a union and there is a ballot for strike action it could mean that if you take part in the strike you will lose your benefits as you are voluntarily losing pay.

This has essentially taken away the rights of the low paid worker.

whattimestea · 25/03/2013 20:16

We're in Yorkshire. Rent is £700 pcm for a 4 bed. 3 beds are around the 600 pcm mark. I appreciate that rents for similar properties in other parts of country are prob way higher. By contrast a similar sized house with a housing association would be around £500 pcm. We'd probably get one of them in time to celebrate my youngest sons 18th the competition for them is so fierce. Its just got to the stage now where it all seems so enormous - its one change after another, and its always a change which means there's less and less. Never claimed benefits at all before dh's accident and it was so bewildering, confusing and frightening. My dh feels so guilty and like he's failing us by being unable to work at present. I want to be able to tell him not to go back to work, wait until he's fit and able but secretly i wish he'd go back tomorrow. Long term who knows what damage he'd wind up doing to himself tho. He's never worked in any other job tho and its all he knows or is able to do. Everyone has their story, Ive yet to meet or speak to one of these lazy, entitled, living the high life benefit scroungers! Not saying that they don't exist in various degrees but this last year has been a very real eye opener for me and made me see how the media grabs hold of a negative stereotype and just runs with it.

whattimestea · 25/03/2013 20:17

And that some folk are so quick to believe it as well.

retrorita · 25/03/2013 20:19

So £700 rent pushes a couple with five children over the benefit cap?

whattimestea · 25/03/2013 20:19

And that some folk are so quick to believe it as well.

MisForMumNotMaid · 25/03/2013 20:28

£25k cap is £2083/ month so everything comes out of that.

whattimestea · 25/03/2013 20:31

It wouldn't matter what our rent was. The cap is what it is and the number of children you have is irrelevant. 1, 2, 5 or 25! The cap on a couple with kids - any amount - is £500. Our housing benefit is getting reduced by £89 per week approx. Dh earned a living wage for us before everything went wrong. A minimum wage job even full time would pay peanuts in real terms. As someone said earlier down the thread the problem isn't benefits are too much, its that wages don't pay enough to live on. I will have to find work too but with 5 kids between 9 months and 15 years old then my head just can't get round the childcare/logistics of what would happen once me and dh were out working!

nkf · 25/03/2013 22:03

I've just looked at the MN guide to Universal Credit and it states that certain benefits are not part of it. DLA was one of them. It seems to be exempt from any sort of capping too. I find these sort of threads very confusing. I want to learn something but it's really hard to distinguish fears from facts.

Viviennemary · 25/03/2013 22:42

I think the cap only applies to out of work benefits. So people receiving the working tax credit won't be affected. It is very confusing.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 25/03/2013 22:47

Yes, but if that DLA is in dispute because of a 'reconsideration', as mine is, you are not protected from the cap for the length of time it takes to settle that appeal, whilst DLA is unpaid and arrears may be accruing that may be owed to you.

In the meantime, as I have found out, the severe disablement top up on your IS ALSO stops being paid. Again, arrears owed to you may be paid whenever your DLA appeal is finalised. However, as you are POSSIBLY going to be in receipt of backpay at done random point in the future that may not even happen, they count that NON PAID AT THE TIME severe disablement top up on the IS as if it IS being paid. Even though it's not.

That's not 'fear'.

That's the reality of what is happening in my life, TODAY.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 25/03/2013 22:50

According to the letter that I got today, anyone in receipt of Working Tax Credit is expat from the cap.

Until UC comes in, when it IS a very different story.

Go and Google the 'Universal Credit Policy Briefing Notes', and see how scary UC actually is.

I'm just not even sure if MY family will make it far enough to be fucked up by UC - the cap will have done the work well in advance.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 25/03/2013 22:51

Expat = exempt. Autocorrect + too long on MN...

nkf · 25/03/2013 22:54

Couthy, I wish I knew how to help you because your situation sounds terrible. I don't even know what to suggest because it's so outside my experience. I hope someone can help you. Maybe even if you posted a thread about your specific problem, you would get some advice.

All I was saying is that threads about UC often turns into threads about something else. Your circumstances can't be connected to UC because UC hasn't come in yet. Something else is going on by the sounds of it.

I hope things improve for you. I really do.

AudrinaAdare · 25/03/2013 23:01

Couthy what happened to your DLA?

I applied for a "reconsideration" when DS was turned down for his. I had to send in additional evidence and then appeal. The entire process took a year Hmm

Have they told you why they granted it and then reconsidered themselves? Once it is awarded that's pretty much it or so I thought.

Going to PM in a minute as we have spoken quite a bit over the last two years with Frothers etc. You have given me excellent advice and I wish I could do something to help!

MisForMumNotMaid · 25/03/2013 23:03

Couthy my heart goes out to you. You must be exhausted. Do you have a local MP's drop in session you could get to to get them on your case?

I sort of half wondered if you could play the benefits game (I know you shouldn't have to) get job centre to support you in setting up your own business (selling stuff for friends family on ebay from home or similar so no childcare issue still available full time for their needs and to manage your own)) so you'd get guaranteed JSA for six months (I can't think what the scheme is called) and be able to claim child and working tax credits and avoid the cap temporarily to allow the DLA applications to process?

M0naLisa · 25/03/2013 23:46

Haven't read all replies as there are so many.

But my god I bloody hate the statement

'If you can't afford to have children you shouldn't have them'

Should I maybe have said to the old company I used to work for that they can't close the business down due to the recession because I have children and I will neglect them because I won't be able to afford to to feed them.

God. Some bloody high and mighty ones browse this forum.

That's all.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs · 26/03/2013 00:01

Not possible as I can't leave DS3 at any MS childcare. His allergies are too severe.