To think pushing a pram while smoking...

[Damash12]

Is just wrong!! I'm probably gonna get flamed but really??!! I see mum/dad pushing their babies with a fag resting on the handle, about level with child's head, all the fag smoke blowing nicely over the baby. And why do I find it even worse when it's a grandparent???

I hate it when they trot out the line of "its my choice to smoke". What about their child's choice to not grow up with smoke around them? I agree with a previous poster that to some extent it is abusive. The same way it is abusive to an extent to feed your child junk food constantly so it gets overweight.

Its not fair to damage someone else through you own choices. I judge smokers with children and I don't mind admitting it. I have one SIL who stopped for her pregnancy and now smokes again. What was the point of starting again after stopping for nine months? My other SIL smoked her entire pregnancy even though her baby was planned and she was TTC for a year. Why isn't that baby precious enough to stop smoking for after the waiting it took to get him?

I just don't see the logic of it at all.

Honestly, the exhaust fumes from cars and lorries are extremely damaging, but I see children exposed to this pollution every single day. But I suppose it makes people feel better to look down on those horrid, common smokers.

FTR, I do not now nor have I ever smoked.

Kitchen avoiding blowing smoke on your baby is very, very,very simple. Trying to protect your child from the exhaust fumes from cars and lorries is much more difficult.

One involves not smoking in your child's face the other involves moving somewhere where there is no pollution, never leaving the house or placing your child in a protective bubble.

It's not really the same is it?

The logic of believing that all smokers smoke 20 a day, all smoke in bus shelters or outside shop doors, and all smoke around their DC is about as sound as believing that all drinkers drink a bottle of wine a day, drink on the street and get drunk in charge of their DC.

The majority of smokers I know, myself included, are well aware that it is a bad habit and one that non-smokers dislike being around. The majority of smokers I know smoke in their back garden, don't smoke around their DC or their non-smoking friends, have smoking coats/clothes, wash their hands and clean their teeth after each cigarette etc.

I suspect that this 'rough, nasty, gormless' impression is because of a limited impression of smokers posters have seen in public, and they are then applying that to everyone.

You can dislike smoking as much as you want, that's your right, and I'd be the first person to agree that the smoking ban was a great idea and has made pubs and restaurants a million times better than they were. Just don't tar every smoker with the same brush. Plenty of smokers follow current guidelines/advice about restricting second-hand smoke and will only have it as their (legal) treat in the evenings, or on a lunch break from work.

My parents were both seriously heavy smokers when I was a kid as were most of my friends' parents, so I never noticed a smell of any sort cos I was so used to it. My Mum quit three years ago when a bad chest infection meant she physically couldn't smoke. She says it now makes her cringe to see people (including my Dad, who still smokes!) smoking and that the smell off them makes her feel ill. She feels embarrassed that she used to smell like that herself. And as she smoked through 5 pregnancies (and twins from first were born early and subsequently died - BOTH of them) and my youngest brother was also prem and had learning difficulties, she also says that when she sees pregnant women smoking she wants to shake the hell out of them.

It is exactly the same. I can't honestly imagine that anyone outside pushing a pram would be leaning down and blowing smoke into the baby's face. Even if someone did that, it is likely that simply being outside would be enough for very little smoke to affect the baby. We're not talking about repeated exposure to cigarette smoke in an enclosed space.

But exposing a baby to air pollution can be very damaging indeed, and the pollution from cars is obviously greater than that from a single cigarette.

Thurlow, it's great that you follow such stringent measures, exactly what is recommended however you are the only person that I have across ever who is so good, seriously no one I know (including a Nanny) does what you do, it's great that you do these things and other smokers on this thread could learn from you.

Actually, I should have said it isn't the same. Car exhaust is potentially much more damaging than a single cigarette in the open air.

Kitchenandjumble, it is not exactly the same. One (pollution) is smoke and toxins that are part of daily life produced by other people that we can't easily opt out of to protect their children or easily avoid. The other (cigarettes) is smoke and toxins that are something the smoker brings into their daily life and could easily opt out if the protect their children and can very easily be avoided by not smoking. They may both be damaging but smoking is a lot more avoidable so they are definitely not the same thing.

Yes, I corrected myself to say they are not exactly the same. One (pollution) is potentially much worse.

As I said upthread, I'm not a smoker. I've never smoked. But all the shock-horror, rabid anti-smoking stuff can sometimes be just a way for people to feel superior to others. There seems to be an element of class bias as well (witness the "common" comments above).

God, I'd be worried about a nanny who didn't follow the advice

But I am intrigued where people live or work if they see so much of it. Where I live and work the habit of 'smoking out of the way' is definitely followed.

The thing is, you don't see a lot of parents who smoke smoking around their DC because by definition they are smoking out of sight. That's why it is so ridiculous to tar all smokers with the same brush.

Pollution may be worse but it is unavoidable. I can't personally get all te cars off the road so my dc doesn't breathe in exhaust fumes. Smoking and cigarettes are avoidable. I can choose not to smoke and choose for my dc not to breathe in cigarette smoke. Comparing the two the way you and other posters have done is really illogical. Why would someone choose to damage their child's health with something so easy to avoid? Saying that exhaust fumes are worse doesnt change the fact that smokers selfishly force toxins onto a child that they could completely avoid.

I'm always amused when I see parents out for a walk pointedly move a child away from a passerby with a cigarette in his hand, but closer to the road where the cars are breathing exhaust. Talk about illogical.

I do agree that we would all be better off if nobody smoked at all. But it is legal, and as long as it remains that way, taking precautions of only smoking outdoors is certainly better than the alternative.

I wasn't talking about avoiding other people's smoke. I was talking about parents who choose to smoke around their own children and force avoidable toxins on them and how that is selfish. I can't avoid exhaust fumes and I can't avoid smokers on the street but I can avoid adding to those toxins that my dc has to breathe by not smoking myself. Parents who choose to smoke when it can be avoided are selfish and I don't buy the argument that "oh there are all these other toxins in the air anyway so what's one more from smoking!" that a lot of people seem to trot out on this type of thread.

Yep, pretty much EVERYTHING MrsDevere says above. Can't wait to see the smoker's brigade's come back to that!

Thurlow, you sound like a lovely mummy, my DP smokes and he like you makes sure he never smokes around DD or is smoke smelling near her. I am not anti smokers, just anti the ones that have no consideration for others around them. Hell, I cant seem to give up chocolate so I can understand how hard it is to give up a an addictive substance like tobacco. I just wish smokers were all like you and my DP and realised that it is dangerous and it shouldnt be inflicted upon others.

Thurlow- lucky you! Where I live, you see it all the bloody time.

I can't work out if some of the posts on this thread are serious or taking the piss. Do some people really think that children should be taken away by social services if their parents smoke? The child would be better off in the care system than with their loving parent(s) who sometimes have a cigarette while walking out in the open air? Really?

No, that wasn't my point. I meant that people are wildly overstating the danger of a single cigarette in the open air, while blithely ignoring the greater danger of exhaust emissions.

As I wrote above, it would be better if no one ever smoked at all. And I say that as someone whose parents both smoked like chimneys, in the house, in the car, everywhere. I don't have any health issues as a result, but I have no idea why (and AFAIK, neither do the medical professionals). And I certainly never wanted to smoke. Having parents who were chain smokers was enough of a deterrent for me!

It's disgusting and I have to say I generally assume (maybe wrongly) they are the ones that will smoke while pregnant!

My last post was addressed to Sneezing.

Yes, feck, that attitude from some posters is what has pissed me off and got me repeatedly posting.

Many of you who are having a go at smokers could avoid your DCs being in contact with many other toxins, but many of you choose not.

I think the harm from artificial sweeteners is massive and they are in all sorts of foods and drinks. Hopefully all you anti smokers don't let your children ingest those toxins.

Disposable nappies do contain toxins, but I doubt there will be many studies done on their adverse effects.