To ask for one, simple, summary about all the angry SAHM threads.

[catinboots]

Pleaseeee??

I haven't read them all - but there seem to be lots of SAHMs on here today, moaning that they won't eat help with child are costs.

Eh?

Have I missed some key piece of information? Have a got it wrong?

Surely the whole point of being a SAHP is so that you don't need childcare?..

Women have been demanding, nay begging for subsidised child care for years. All the evidence shows that it is the single biggest factor in discouraging women from returning the workplace post DC.

And now we get it....

Given that the average wage is £26500 how many couples in the uk earn £149k each? I can't see any point in getting hung up on that.

If one parent works f/t and the other doesn't work enough hours to pay tax, would they be entitled to help with the hours of child care they may need to work part time?

Well it's agood day for the patriarchy, no?

Wome finally get somehting they've been demanding for years and who is up in arms...a group of women...

Its come too late for us. We meet all the conditions but dont need childcare formally anymore.

Its good news but some will always moan it doesnt suit their personal circumstances.

Too late for me too...

But my goodness I'm glad to see that we're moving a little way towards getting what women have been asking for.

Oh I just read some more - whoever was asking about SAHM and NI credits -

it is ANYBODY who :
has rights to receive child benefit for children under the age of 12 and earns less than is needed for NI to be paid that gets the credit - not just SAHM...

YANBU. I think it is wonderful when women (are able to) choose to stay at home and 'bring up their children themselves' (to paraphrase countless posters on mumsnet)

however, if you choose to 'bring up your children yourself' it is beyond unreasonable to expect the government to still subsidise childcare for you (and remember, you already get 15 free hours a week from age 2 /3 ). It actually will make that twinge of guilt a lot smaller when in future I read those type of comments from posters, as clearly lots of them would like to /do stay at home but put the children in childcare anyway.

I would love to have the choice but it isn't possible, even with two of us working (me workingpart time compressed hours that mean I work again most evenings when DS is in bed, and DH working one day at the weekend so he can do childcare one of the days I'm at work) it is a real stretch for us at the minute

One more point that may not have been considered, in Scotland nursery places are not exactly free. You get 12 hours of allocated funding but some nurseries also need payment on top of that. So in our nursery they take children 3 until 5 a non funded place is £18.50 and a funded place is £8.00 a session, so although I get 12 hours of funded childcare if I want to prepare my child for the school environment and help him get to know some peers to put my child in 3 afternoon sessions a week is still costing money.

My dh works, we can afford preschool without funding but it feels unfair when the voucher scheme worked well for our family. It would feel less unfair if preschool was fully funded. Or if there was consideration for families with a single earner.

Sahp don't necessarily want full childcare costs but with the voucher scheme you could take as little as £30 a month and we didn't have to worry about it coming from our family budget directly. The money for nursery was already set aside and it gave my ds so much more than I could give him. Those 3 afternoons were helping him so much as he was with trained staff who enriched his learning far more than I could as a mum and the new government scheme just feels to be creating a greater divide between has and has not.

We struggle to get by but manage and the vouchers were just helpful, like I've said earlier some parents want to work but can't due to many factors. The new scheme just seem ill considered.

SOME REASONS WHY A SAHP MIGHT NEED CHILDCARE...

First principles, when should childcare be subsidised? Just because parents need it (personal circumstances) or in the specific & narrow case of making work pay?

Why should a parent get the subsidy for costs WHEN a non-parent wouldn't get a subsidy for their costs to do the same things? Are parents really that special a group to get a subsidy for those reasons? Or What if the SAHP is using a relative to provide free childcare to do those things, should the SAHP get the equivalent childcare costs paid as a benefit?

And if not, why not?

The thing is, if you think SAHPs deserve those subsidies, then why under the old system were they only available to about 10% of the workforce/450,000 families? (Answer: Because only a few employers gave those subsidies out.)

We never had an employer who offered vouchers. So should I moan now about how unfair that was? Aside from the 15 hrs/week for over 3s, we last got help with childcare costs in 2004. I'm not moaning, but should I?

I've bought a car so that I can stop being a SAHP and get back to work. Should the govt subsidise my car purchase, why not?

Oh great Bytheway. All the tax payers are now giving credit to people that havent contributed at all..... When will this stop. Its not ecomonically viable that less and less people are paying for more and more. Oh sorry - you are counting others as having contributed to your share.....

Heres my summary:

All the low - average earners continue to struggle to make ends meet in the face of expensive childcare and decreasing benefits, not to mention the high costs of housing and ever increasing cost of living.

They argue and bitch amongst themselves about who is the most hard done by and who should have stayed at home or gone to work, who is working hard, who is getting on.

In the meantime we overlook the fact that families with a joint income of £300k still get this benefit.

While the family with one parent at home and one parent on £60k gets neither the childcare vouchers or Child benefit.

The family with one parent on minimum wage and the other working part time and juggling children but earning less than £10k don't qualify for childcare vouchers.

On what planet does the family with an income of £300k need childcare vouchers?

Cameron, Osbourne et al look after themselves as ever.

I genuinely believe that what you put in should somehow be related to what you get out of the system.

What benefits do parents earning 300k get? They don't!

Thanks Mme. That's exactly what I was trying and failing to say.

My guess is that if you jointly earn over £150k you really won't be arsed to fill in the paperwork for a measley £1200/yr. Bet the accountant charges more than that to fill in the paperwork for you, too.

Who knows anyone who has a dual income of £300k? I dont and we use a snazzy well known private boarding school for DS's. There will of course be a few but literally a few...

My sister chooses to work in a job which is paid less than half of what I am paid. She constantly says she wouldnt do a role like mine with the hours involved. She gets to work at 0900 and leaves at 1700 with no issues to take home. Its her choice but what she hasnt realised is that they wouldnt take someone like her to do the minimum. We make our choices. What cannot happen is that people who arent contributing at all still expect to get something out of it.

The £300k couple will be paying tons of tax btw....

But it's being billed as something to help get more mothers into work, yet those already struggling aren't being helped by this scheme.

There's only a limited amount of money on the pot, so why can't it be spent on those who need it most?

You both have to earn less than 150k

Actually at the boarding school my sons go to most mothers dont work. Lots of investment bankers with the mothers doing all of the childcare, driving around etc. It allows the men (and it is normally men!) to concentrate on their careers. With divorce rates so high I have to say somewhat foolish.

One of the Mum's at school had her DH leave her for someone else and she was 50. She asked me what she could do. She had never worked. I am at a loss to know what to say to her.

Working gives you some independence and ability to make your own decisions. Just ask Xenia who is often around.

Well I think benefits should be based on need oneliein so we differ there.

maisie I don't presume to know what the other parents in the school playground earn. How would I know? Although I'd guess that 2 full time GP's could clear this amount (or close to) quite easily.

Well we differ there. I don't believe SAHM's "need" childcare

And I really struggle with the concept of being a SAHM when the dc is at school

Even when dc start school, they still benefit from having a sahp. The school day really isn't that long and when the dc come home they still need my time and attention. School age dc have different needs than smaller children, but those needs are no less time consuming.

I find that the school hours are sometimes busy, sometimes nice and relaxing, depending on what I have planned. The hours after my dc come home are very busy and full on.