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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU about school security?

46 replies

schoolsecurity · 20/03/2013 14:43

Have namechanged for this as slightly sensitive.

My DS walked out of his primary classroom after being dropped off today. His teacher didn't notice and he walked off the school premises without being challenged and got all the way home (5 min walk).

He is fine, and was taken back to school. He had no reason for leaving apart from some minor problem with a bit of equipment. He is normally sensible so would have put money on his not doing anything like this. He has been talked to by his teacher and the headteacher, and we will talk to him again this evening.

However, I'm concerned that he was able to leave school so easily. It was only possible because he did it in the 10 minutes between the classrooms being opened and the school main gates (which give access to playground and classrooms without going through reception) being locked (after the late bell had gone). The school sometimes have staff on the gates, but didn't today. I spoke to the headteacher, who said that it is normal for primary schools not to man the gates.

I have a good relationship with the head, so don't feel fobbed off, but really don't know how to react to this, and what, if anything, I should be asking the school to do so that this can't happen again. It seems unreasonable to suggest that class teachers should be hawk-eyed in the period before the late bell, as they generally seem to be fending off parents, collecting money and doing 101 other things.

What do other schools do?

OP posts:
ArseAche · 20/03/2013 14:45

Unfortunately, in this case, I think the Head is right. The parents are responsible for the child unti lthe bell goes and the teacher is out there and leading them into the classroom or however they do it.

That is the stance our primary took when mine were there. Had he walked home in the middle of the day, different matter entirely.

CockyFox · 20/03/2013 14:46

At DCs school they don't man the gate but they do man the two doors so in theory no child can get out. In practice the TA on the door is often talking to a parent and it would be possible for a child to sneak out unnoticed.

meditrina · 20/03/2013 14:48

I am glad he was found! And yes of course schools need to make sure children don't escape; harder of course during arrivals/pick ups, but important always.

Our school has only one gate open, and it stations a member of staff (often the HT) by it, to keep an eye on comings and goings. It prevents uniform children leaving, ensures those entering are dropping children (not random miscreants), and also leaves parents with the impression HT is readily accessible (even if all you get is pleasantries and 'I think you need to make an appointment if you want to talk about that').

meditrina · 20/03/2013 14:50

I think, BTW, that if e school says children can be dropped unattended to wait in the playground, then the school does become responsible. Ours says KS1 must be accompanied, but KS2 can be left (ratios, I suppose).

GrumpyOldWomanToo · 20/03/2013 14:56

I haven't lived in England for many years, but the idea of schools having locked gates seems absurd to me. When I was at school (many years ago) I could have walked away a dozen times a day.

Locally, we had a 6-y-o decide he was going to go home in the middle of the school day. His mother read him the riot act and dragged him back to the school. The school said "we're not a jail".

I find the comment from meditrina "schools need to make sure that children don't escape" interesting. I'm gad I'm old.

craftynclothy · 20/03/2013 14:56

At the school my kids go to, there's always a member of staff on the gate (usually the Head or Deputy Head but occasionally one of the other teachers) in the morning and the afternoon.

Parents remain responsible for their kids until the teacher has led them into the classroom though (they line up) except days where the weather is bad and they let the kids go straight in. In that case, there's also staff on the door into the school.

That's all for KS1 (not sure about later because they're in a different part of the grounds.

TheChaoGoesMu · 20/03/2013 14:57

At our school the children have to go into the playground by themselves. Parents aren't allowed in after the first term in reception. As it is a school rule its the schools responsibility to ensure the children are safe, once they have passed through the gate. We have a teacher standing at the gate, to make sure no children leave again on their own.

Original poster
schoolsecurity · 20/03/2013 15:00

Just to clarify, he had been let into the classroom by the teacher, not just left in the playground. Although I have done that before because I (previously) thought he was sensible enough not to need to be walked all the way to the classroom door. But today, he had technically been left in the care of the school.

OP posts:
myBOYSareBONKERS · 20/03/2013 15:01

GrumpyOldWomanToo - it isn't always to keep the children in but to keep the nutters who want to harm kids out

myBOYSareBONKERS · 20/03/2013 15:03

The fact that he had entered the school building at the correct time means that they have the responsibility for him. I think they maybe need to have a look at their Safeguarding policy as there will be children who will try and abscond (my son has AS and tries too)

WilsonFrickett · 20/03/2013 15:04

Grumpy a lot changed in British schools after Dunblane Sad including a focus on school security.

jennybeadle · 20/03/2013 15:05

I heard of a school getting their fingers rapped in an Ofsted because of a similar situation leading to safeguarding concerns.

Glad your son is fine. As myBOYS said, the concern is usually about those who want in but shouldn't be at that time of day.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 20/03/2013 15:10

Mine could do this, if they wanted. They have changed procedure so we drop them in the playground and they can go in to the school building from 8.45 onwards (school starts at 9) - but there would be nothing to stop them walking out again during that 15 minutes as other parents and children are still arriving. There is not a member of staff manning the gate.

Original poster
schoolsecurity · 20/03/2013 15:14

myBOYS - I'm fairly sure that if he had identified needs that would make this behaviour likely that the school would put measures in place. They are also much more careful with Reception children, and keep their classroom doors shut until the gate is locked - you have to get a member of staff to let you out.

There's nothing about it in the Safeguarding policy - it's all traditional child protection stuff. I know the policies are all supplied by an external specialist agency, so would imagine that is standard.

OP posts:
Original poster
schoolsecurity · 20/03/2013 16:12

myBOYS - have done some googling on specimen safeguarding policies, and found some that are much more comprehensive than ours, and contain stuff about keeping the site secure and not letting children leave school alone during the day. I'll consider asking the governors to review the safeguarding policy. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.

OP posts:
myBOYSareBONKERS · 20/03/2013 16:57

That's good that you have found some things. Your son sounds very sensible (and this could be the way to approach it in a positive way) but other children may not be - or have family members at home to meet them if they do "escape".

The fact that this has happened shows that there is a need for a review - the school could get into alot of bother if another child leaves (and gets hurt) and the parents are not as understanding as you are.

LastTangoInDevonshire · 20/03/2013 17:04

It won't be long before they are tagged on entering the school and de-tagged at the end of the day.

What do you parents think we used to do in "the olden days"? I'm with GrumpyOldWoman.

Original poster
schoolsecurity · 20/03/2013 17:24

LastTango - I'm genuinely interested in that point of view, because I don't want to bundle him up in cotton wool, but I do want to keep him (and other children) safe. Do you think the school would be better without security fences? I don't yet let DS walk to school because even though the route is safe, I'm not sure enough that people would help him if eg he fell over and hurt himself. I don't really want him in a situation where he has to rely on the kindness of strangers

OP posts:
GrumpyOldWomanToo · 20/03/2013 17:24

We are talking about locking the gates to keep children in (not letting them escape, as one poster said). This is entirely different from preventing people from entering. Schools always have parents visiting, workmen in, deliveries being made, etc.

One local school keeps the school doors locked, and visitors must ring a bell and state their business before entering and reporting to the office. However, that method doesn't stop people from entering... it just stops casual visiting. A potential trouble-maker could say "I have a delivery" and once he/she has been buzzed in ...

I don't know what the answer is... I'm glad I'm old.

thebody · 20/03/2013 17:59

Grumpy at our school a visitor had to show a pass. And have a prearranged appointment or they can basically sod off, they arnt coming in.

We take safeguarding extremely seriously and no child could ever leave the building in the day unattended.

All gates are locked and bolted and there is no access except via buzzes front door.

I think that's great actually, makes me feel safe as a TA and keeps mad bastards out.

Your school needs to look again at safeguarding as this isn't acceptable.

myBOYSareBONKERS · 20/03/2013 18:04

My boys school has high fences that are padlocked shut. The school entrance is a buzz entry system.

There is then the hatch to the office where all visitors have to sign in at and then buzzed through another locked door into the school.

I am glad for this security as it gives me peace of mind that the school will do all they can to keep the nutters out. However as we know, if they wanted to gain entry and do harm, then they would find a way BUT we don't have to make it easy for them.

primroseyellow · 20/03/2013 18:16

Sounds like school are not meeting current safeguarding requirements if child left after being handed over to their care.

Gargamella · 20/03/2013 18:18

Our schools (infants and junior side by side) stress parents still responsible til morning bell goes. In reality I and many others have to wave goodbye to the older one to then get the younger one through the gates on time. There's so much to-ing and fro-ing around the two sets of gates that it's difficult to keep track. I would like it if s/o at school gates was monitoring that children only went one way, but I think stance taken by OP's head teacher is the usual one. Anyway, glad he was ok.

BackforGood · 20/03/2013 18:30

From what I read, it's not about during the whole day there might be an issue, but that they have a "must arrive sometime in this 10min window" policy, and some children are in school before the register is taken. It's quite common in Junior schools, but iME, more infants classes are lined up and led in by teacher. It does depend on the layout and practice of the school.
I'm not sure how old your ds is ?
It's not usual practice to have staff on the gates - they are there to teach the children, and TAs get a lot done with individual programmes in those 10 mins before assembly. I think if you do make it into a formal complaint, you have to understand that the most likely outcome is that the children will lose the relaxed star in the morning and will have to stay outside until school officially starts. You may feel that is fine of course, or you may want to see if the school would prefer to do an assembly / talk time about the importance of NEVER going out of the classroom once you are in class, without an adult telling you it's OK.

BackforGood · 20/03/2013 18:31

star *start