AIBU about school security?

[schoolsecurity]

Have namechanged for this as slightly sensitive.

My DS walked out of his primary classroom after being dropped off today. His teacher didn't notice and he walked off the school premises without being challenged and got all the way home (5 min walk).

He is fine, and was taken back to school. He had no reason for leaving apart from some minor problem with a bit of equipment. He is normally sensible so would have put money on his not doing anything like this. He has been talked to by his teacher and the headteacher, and we will talk to him again this evening.

However, I'm concerned that he was able to leave school so easily. It was only possible because he did it in the 10 minutes between the classrooms being opened and the school main gates (which give access to playground and classrooms without going through reception) being locked (after the late bell had gone). The school sometimes have staff on the gates, but didn't today. I spoke to the headteacher, who said that it is normal for primary schools not to man the gates.

I have a good relationship with the head, so don't feel fobbed off, but really don't know how to react to this, and what, if anything, I should be asking the school to do so that this can't happen again. It seems unreasonable to suggest that class teachers should be hawk-eyed in the period before the late bell, as they generally seem to be fending off parents, collecting money and doing 101 other things.

What do other schools do?

Hi we had this at our school and I checked with the dept of education etcetc. the school are legally responsible from the point the parent has no choice but to leave. In our school parents are allowed to wait in the playground until the bell goes, so they don't officially man the gate until that point so yes kids can leave and people get in. if they don't alow parents in to wait then the school is responsible and they should man gates etc etc. However apparently there has not been a legal test case so if so something actually happened ie accident, abduction I don't know if the school would have some legal liability. I have to say that although this is what I was told by the officials I don't feel 100% confident of its accuracy.

At the schools my DCs go to, you have to be buzzed in before you are anywhere near the children. And the receptionists won't let you in with a clear idea of who you are (I have run the gauntlet before).

As for policies, while there are specimen policies out there, they are usually tailored to fit a particular school after discussion including the governors (at least, at the DCs primary they are, I was a governor once and helped to re-draft policies).

At the primary school, parents wait with the chldren in the playground until doors open to classrooms; I assume that would be the point at which responsibility is handed over. Once children are inside, all access gates are locked with the exception of one main public gate into the car park, but children have a gate between their playground and the car park so unless the gates are unlocked, they won't get out.

I think that there should have been a teacher or TA on the door, to welcome the children into school (and make sure none try to escape again).
Very glad OPs DS is safe and well.

We have three gates into our school, none are manned. These gates are all locked by the janitor when the bell goes making the school secure. Most children are dropped at one of the gates (or make their own way there) but there is nothing to stop them leaving again. Parents are not allowed in the playground but could stand at the gate until it is locked.

I'm sure children are the parents responsibility until the bell rings.

thebody I'll put bets that if someone comes to the gate holding a box, saying "delivery you'll have to sign for" having got out of a white van, then the gates would be opened for them without a pre-appointment.

gates and doors were locked when I started primary 22 years ago then at secondary the boys school did do swipe card systems in and out if each room/class but too many cheated the system, giving friends card etc that it was scrapped. Access to the school library was by fingerprint scans by the time I was in sixth form. None if these security measures are new!

With regards to the little boy leaving I think it does need addressing further with the head; an assembly isn't a bad idea or asking if they can lock gates sooner? x

We ALWAYS have 2 people in the playground and 1 on the play ground gate, from 8.45am with SMT patrolling the long school driveway and the main school gate.We have to wear high vis jackets.
( The local secondary school has a similar routine with teachers/SMT/pastoral managers on the gate.)
Children are met in the playground at 8.55 by class teachers
Gates are locked at 9.10am, by which time children should be in their classes and parents off the playground. Late arrivals have to go in via the school office.(I don't know about the other primaries in the area, but I daresay it is similar...what one does the others usually do.)

This routine began when OFSTED put us in special measures with regards to safeguarding.

Outside the gate where my boys go in, we have the family support worker there to take messages from parents. We are not allowed in via the gate and as soon as my boys walk through the gate (in my mind anyway!) the school have responsibility for them.

A lot of misinformed replies to this. The fact is that there is no statute on this only caselaw. The school must act reasonably and do what it says it will do. In this case, short of having turnstiles, the schoolseems to have done all it could. It couldn't lock the gates as, obviously, children couldn't get in. Technically, as your child wasn't registered, he was truanting. you don't say how old he is and clearly that is very significant. Anyone who thinks a headteacher 's time is best spent being a gatekeeper has a bizarre view of education

How old is he? If this is an infant school then fair enough, there should have been some kind of supervision but otherwise, I think YABVU.

The school I work in starts at 7 years old. There are 8 ways in and out of the main building alone as well as 2 ways out of each of the other 5 buildings. The whole site is surrounded by fields or the main driveway and there is 360 degree access to the school grounds. Our children are free to roam the grounds in their unsupervised times and the doors are only manned at the most common going home time (and even then it's only 2 of the doors).

Any one of our children could feasibly leave at whatever time they felt like. But we just assume they won't. And, as I far as I know, one never has. I couldn't work in a school that had its children locked in or without the space to play properly.

Depending on his age it is your son who made the choice to leave and bears the responsiblity, not the teachers.

schools without security fences?

picking needles and used condoms out of the nursery playground before children can use it? or walking the school field for dog shit before childen can do pe? no thanks. been in schools where these things are a regular occurrance for teachers. (and there is the fag ends and litter scattered everywhere)

I would be concerned that the school were not very alarmed that a child was in potential danger and they should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. If they cannot be responsible for pupils until register then they should make parents aware so they can ensure their childs safety. Our school gates are manned and classrooms are open and staffed as soon as the school gates are open. I would never leave the school grounds without seeing my DCs enter the classroom or school building. I know there is no guarantee they wouldn't walk out later but I am confident that they wouldn't do so unchallenged.

Where I am all the schools have gates that are locked after 9.00 am. Also CCTV at the gates with a screen in the office. Anyone going in or out is monitored. I thought this was the case or all primaries? Is it not?

Yes, but the OP's ds left the classroom while other children were still coming in, inbetween her dropping him off, and the gates being locked. They can't lock the gates once the first child is in, they have to wait until all the children (possibly except any latecomers) are in. He had a very small window of opportunity, and left in that tiny window.

Your schools sound like prisons. Here, you need to get buzzed to get into the school, but there are no locked gates or playgrounds.

OP, what age is your child?

In my DCs school the HT or DepH do meet and greet at the entrance to the school and someone else mans the gates, so no way could this happen. This is from first bell, when the school doors open until after last bell, when the children have to be sat down for registration.

My DS's school is like a prison, massive high security fences all around (about 10 foot) and only one gate in and out creating a bottle neck at drop off and pick up time. *Maybe this would be a hazard for an evacuation? I hate it. I'm not quite sure how it stops nutters, if you press the buzzer, they let you in the gate and don't ever ask for ID or if you are a nutter or just a parent (some of the parents look like they might be both).

It would be hard for a child to escape TBH, it's pretty hard as a parent to escape if you go through the gate with your child and then try to leave after your child has gone in, as all the latecomers are running in. It would be like an assault course dodging the buggies and the gossipers.

Schools are not flipping prisons despite more and more resembling like them.

Going in time is utterly chaotic and poor teachers are deluged by demands from kids, trying to organise the day as well as parents demanding special attention for their little cherub because their poo was a different shade of brown and he coughed twice during the night.

Teacher's are not wardens and cannot be expected to jail 30 kids from the moment the classroom opens until it shuts.

Depending on your child's age maybe it's more appropriate to teach them that they cannot wander off without telling a teacher rather than blame them per se.

The golden olden days well people in the olden days usually lived closer to school, the roads were safer with less cars.

I know my mum watched me run across the park to my first school and my second school we were dropped off in an empty playground at 8.30 - it was a village primary in the middle of nowhere. We didn't escape and were safe. But a school in a town these days I would not be comfortable with a child escaping -more dangers imo.

I leave my DD about 30 yards from the gate and watch her walk in .I've done this since she was about 5,.Other parents take their kids to the classroom door , some into the cloakroom.The gates are not manned or locked.I have never heard of a child escape.Same when I was at primary school, in fact it is only in the wake of Dunblane that schools have been locked at all during the day.
Children of 5 are assumed to be babies nowadays which is a great shame because with the right handling they can be very responsible.

Thanks all for the posts. Sorry for deserting the thread yesterday - I was offline all day.

We talked to DS on Wednesday evening. He left the classroom because it genuinely didn't occur to him that it was a stupid idea to do so. So we have reinforced that he must not leave the classroom unless his teacher says it's okay, and he understands that this is to keep him safe.

The head has also decided that teachers will be stationed on classroom doors in the ten minutes between the two bells. I'm sure this isn't ideal from the teachers' perspective, but I think it is a good solution from a safeguarding point of view. I will still be asking the governors to review the safeguarding policy though, as I think its definition of safeguarding may be a bit narrow.

Thank you very much to everyone who's shared their thoughts - it's been really helpful.