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AIBU?

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Original poster

To send this to head

50 replies

99problems · 18/03/2013 23:12

Posted on Friday about head teacher informing us at last minute they wouldn't allow a private speech therapist into school to asses ds (4) due to her not having a crb with the school. I have spoken to enough people now to want to question this as from what I understand a one off visit that doesn't entail unsupervised access to a child should not require a crb (which she does actually have anyway). I've put this email together in response, need advice, does it sound too arsey? I'm not the 'complaining' sort, feel pretty nervous about sending it and don't want to burn bridges at this stage but at the same time I'm pissed off.

Dear X,

I am concerned about my son, and his speech and language delays. Due to delays with the NHS speech therapy, we have sought the services of a private speech therapist (who holds an enhanced DBS check). It is imperative that she assesses X in his school environment, observing his interactions with his peers in the classroom. We have been advised that this visit would take approximately an hour/2 hours. If you seek to prevent this from happening due to safeguarding concerns, could you please inform me of the precise legislation, or policies, which mean this isn't possible as I wish to seek further advice on this matter.

Regards,

X

OP posts:
candyandyoga · 18/03/2013 23:14

That sounds reasonable to me! Can you bring it up with the school governors?

Original poster
99problems · 18/03/2013 23:17

I guess that will be my next stage depending on what the response is to this... Many I have spoken to seem to think the school have another agenda, including the speech therapist. I am v upset as the school are usually brilliant and we were lucky to get ds in there. Now I feel completely unsupported and like they don't have ds' best interests at heart. V nervous about complaining though (meant for the email to sound more like an enquiry), just feel awkward about the whole thing.

OP posts:
SparklyAntlersInMyDecorating · 18/03/2013 23:18

This reply has been deleted

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PolarIceBears · 18/03/2013 23:19

Try"If you are unable to allow this due to safeguarding" rather than "seek to prevent". it's less "blaming" so less inflammatory, but still asks for the legal reasoning and states you will be checking any lies.
The rest seems completely fine, just thought "seek to prevent" sounds a bit too accusing.

highlandcoo · 18/03/2013 23:19

I would change the wording of the sentence that starts "If you seek to prevent .." because it implies that the head teacher is deliberately being obstructive.

I would replace it with "My understanding is .."" and then continue to explain why you think the visit is in order.

HTH

WorraLiberty · 18/03/2013 23:21

That's fair enough...I remember your thread.

But I have to say, schools are bound by their policies and even though she has a CRB certificate, that's not necessarily enough. It will depend on how old it is.

I'm vice chair of govs at my local primary and I know that when we interview teachers, we offer them the job subject to a new CRB pass.

They all hold CRB certificates, sometimes they're up to 3yrs old and sometimes they're newly issued...but it's school policy for the school itself to apply for a fresh CRB.

As I said on your other thread, I imagine this will cause a problem because the therapist does not work for the LA - therefore it poses the question, 'who pays for the CRB check'?

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/03/2013 23:22

I would completely remove the on the grounds of safeguarding bit as your basically giving them a way out.

Can you amend it so it reads

I have made this appointment this is what it is for,this therapist is from x clinic who hold these formal registrations ( any gmc Regis number ect)
This appointment will be taking place on x day at x time and will take x amount of time, dc is aware of this appointment and none of your staff will be needed to assist with this matter he/she will need to observe dc in his learning environment,should any of your staff have concerns about dc they are of course more than welcome to discuss them with therapist.

His/her report will be being forwarded to gp LA and cams and hopefully used to support dc in his communication I will of course also provide you with a copy of his/her report.

I'm sure you understand the importance of obtaining support for dc promptly a d trust this will not be an issue.

Original poster
99problems · 18/03/2013 23:22

Thank you, have re-worded that part now.

Worra would this still be the case for a one off, supervised visit?

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 18/03/2013 23:25

Sorry include the line

As you are well aware a crb check is only needed if he/she was to be working alone with dc this is not the case dc's assessment only requires dc to be observed in a normal classroom in the exact same way that a NHS funded therapist does.

WorraLiberty · 18/03/2013 23:27

Worra would this still be the case for a one off, supervised visit?

Quite possibly yes.

The parents at my DS's school all have to have CRB clearance to help on school trips...yet none of them will be left alone with the children.

The governors all have to have CRB clearance to sit on the governing body...yet they will never be left alone with the children.

I'm afraid it's not enough to hold a valid certificate...it has to be 100% up to date and the only way that can happen, is if the school applies for and pays for a new one.

I know it's terribly 'pedantic' but due to cases like Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr, it's a fairly standard policy in most schools I'm afraid.

LandofTute · 18/03/2013 23:28

She won't ever be with children but without other staff present will she? As I understand it she won't then need a CRB

Blessyou · 18/03/2013 23:29

Perhaps add : I would like to clarify, she does actually hold a CRB certificate (Enhanced disclosure??dated??) but this is not particularly relevant as she does not require unsupervised access to DS at any time.
I am sure you have carried out a risk assessment for visitors, the outcome of which is presumably to mitigate any potential risk from any visitors by not leaving them unsupervised.

WorraLiberty · 18/03/2013 23:29

But still I think you should send the email.

Then if it turns out they're bound by policy, either the therapist or you (I suspect you) could offer to pay for a new and up to date CRB.

I can't see how they can argue about that.

WorraLiberty · 18/03/2013 23:30

She won't ever be with children but without other staff present will she? As I understand it she won't then need a CRB

Wrong in the case of my DS's school.

But then again, all school policies will be different.

dayshiftdoris · 18/03/2013 23:30

Schools should work in close partnership with the providers of all these services. The SENCO, in particular, should be aware of the LEA?s policy for the provision of support services and how the school can gain access to them. LEAs should provide full information to all schools in their area about the range of services locally available and how they can be secured. Whether or not funding for particular support services is
delegated to schools, it may be helpful for schools and LEAs to draw up service level agreements for such services, specifying the scope, quality and duration of the service to be provided. When schools enter into contracts with private or voluntary sector providers, they should satisfy themselves of the qualifications and experience of the specialists involved, that the service represents good value for money and carry out appropriate police checks.

That is from the SEN Code of Practice - Chapter 10 - working in Partnership with other Agencies

The school maybe interpreting it as they carry out the DBS (as CRB is now known) as they are not part of the same organisation (local authority) but a recent DBS should be ok and if not then I would suggest that they are not left alone.

In fact when professionals have been in to school for my son they seem to be accompanied most of the time, even those who are part of the LA.

dayshiftdoris · 18/03/2013 23:30

Sorry Bold fail!!!

Original poster
99problems · 18/03/2013 23:31

Hmm I wonder if I offer to pay for a CRB, maybe that could work?

I completely advocate the need to keep children safe, but feel very frustrated at our situation.

OP posts:
dayshiftdoris · 18/03/2013 23:33

BTW - if they do intend to apply for a DBS - mine, to become a Governor, took 6 weeks!

Considering that - is the NHS not a better bet?

WorraLiberty · 18/03/2013 23:33

Hmm I wonder if I offer to pay for a CRB, maybe that could work?

I genuinely think that if all else fails, that would really work.

IME these things are all about who pays for the CRB.

It's not down to the school in this case and the therapist will feel it's not down to her either.

It's unfair that it should fall to you, but if after sending the email you find that this is what it boils down to, It's probably best you offer to pay for it Sad

Good luck anyway OP, I hope it all works out Thanks

Original poster
99problems · 18/03/2013 23:40

Thanks worra, me too! Going to have to start saving again!

He is on the waiting list for the NHS - he was discharged in November - I was told of his discharge by ds' teacher, the speech therapist didn't tell me or ever send her final report despite me calling for about 2 months and ds' dad making a complaint.

He was re-referred by a concerned pediatrician who couldn't understand a word ds was saying Sad. The SALT service here is spread very thinly, apparently many of the therapists are on maternity leave and unless there are behavioural issues, then the child is not a priority.

OP posts:
dayshiftdoris · 18/03/2013 23:45

Worra can she pay for it? individuals cant apply for a DBS and I dont think a school could apply on her behalf then charge her??
Imagine that popping up on the accounts!!

(I wasnt able to apply as a private tutor - most private tutors have them through second jobs)

maddening · 18/03/2013 23:47

I would end it with - hopefully we can work together to find a suitable solution.

MajorDivvy · 18/03/2013 23:53

I know it's terribly 'pedantic' but due to cases like Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr, it's a fairly standard policy in most schools I'm afraid

The thing that annoys me about CRB checks is the they only prove you haven't been caught! I happen to personally know of someone who had a clear enhanced CRB for working with kids in an after school club and has recently been sent down for being a paedofile!
Not saying they shouldn't exist but it's another false sense of security.

dayshiftdoris · 18/03/2013 23:53

The issue is this...

You pay for a report

Private assessments are not considered has highly by LA - there is a feeling that a parent paying may bias the content... this attitude unfortunately still exists in many schools and areas

Report says he needs x,y & z... who will carry that out?

School might say - No because its a SALT issue and they should be providing the service and SALT will want their own assessment should they be expected to come in and do work with him.

You need proper Special Educational Need legal advice before you do anything at all:

Try the local Parent Partnership - every local authority has them
IPSEA www.ipsea.org.uk/
ACE - no longer run a helpline but their leaflets are great

Also have you heard of iCan? Amazing website www.ican.org.uk/ Try them too

Good luck - this stuff is very wearing x

Blessyou · 18/03/2013 23:55

In your case I would be making a robust complaint to the NHS about their service provision rather waiting or messing about like this with school.
Make a nuisance of yourself, they will hopefully just go in and see him to shut you up resolve your complaint.

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