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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To send this to head

50 replies

99problems · 18/03/2013 23:12

Posted on Friday about head teacher informing us at last minute they wouldn't allow a private speech therapist into school to asses ds (4) due to her not having a crb with the school. I have spoken to enough people now to want to question this as from what I understand a one off visit that doesn't entail unsupervised access to a child should not require a crb (which she does actually have anyway). I've put this email together in response, need advice, does it sound too arsey? I'm not the 'complaining' sort, feel pretty nervous about sending it and don't want to burn bridges at this stage but at the same time I'm pissed off.

Dear X,

I am concerned about my son, and his speech and language delays. Due to delays with the NHS speech therapy, we have sought the services of a private speech therapist (who holds an enhanced DBS check). It is imperative that she assesses X in his school environment, observing his interactions with his peers in the classroom. We have been advised that this visit would take approximately an hour/2 hours. If you seek to prevent this from happening due to safeguarding concerns, could you please inform me of the precise legislation, or policies, which mean this isn't possible as I wish to seek further advice on this matter.

Regards,

OP posts:

NoMoreMarbles · 19/03/2013 00:04

I work in education recruitment and process DBS checks and other vetting checks daily. AFAIK As a visitor he/she should not need a new DBS providing the DBS was issued within the last 12months. You can ask the therapist for a copy of the DBS to provide to the school and a chaperone on the day as well which may be a good compromise for the school. The DBS guidelines and issue policies changed in December which means if the DBS was issued since then, there is no need to seek portability from the regulatory/ countersignatory body although many of these will still confirm there is no further information on a separate cover to that which the therapist has. It may be worth arranging a face to face meeting to discuss this with the head and the SENCO to get a better idea of what the issue is with a DBS cleared medical professional entering the school for a short, supervised visit.

I wouldn't offer to pay for one yourself as the school should offer a valid alternative in the best interest f your DS.

dayshiftdoris · 19/03/2013 00:14

NoMoreMarbles

This was my understanding but when I was doing the paperwork for my recent DBS the school told me that even if I'd have had a recent DBS (have recently left the NHS and had many over the years) I would still need one for them as it is their school policy.

Are schools just slow on the uptake on this new legislation?
Do you know where it can be found?

NoMoreMarbles · 19/03/2013 00:33

IME most NHS DBS checked staff transferring to work in education on a perm basis would need a new DBS as the portability can't/wont be confirmed by the NHS trust who performed the check. For a visitor, they technically don't even need a DBS at all (most if not all should/will have one anyway though) there is a new 'one click' DBS system that confirms all current DBS without the need to request portability that is due to be released in the next month or so. This should negate the need for agencies/LEAs/NHS trusts refusing to confirm despite the DBS being in date/valid...

The head really needs actual legislative basis for saying no as there is no real DBS related reasoning as long as they have an up to date check...

Selks · 19/03/2013 00:35

Schools are frequently visited, in a professional capacity, by numerous professionals such as social workers, ed psychs, mental health practitioners, speech and language therapists etc etc etc. None of those will have a CRB done by the school, just the one from their own organisation.

nosleeps · 19/03/2013 06:15

Nomoremarbles is right.

The school's policies are outdated. They are either hiding behind these as they disagree in principle, or they are behind the times.
The speech therapist can simply take in their DBS. The school can make a record of the number.

schoolgovernor · 19/03/2013 07:30

Anyone who is going to be left alone with a child in a school will need to be suitably checked under the Disclosure and Barring Service (CRB checks no longer exist).
The school should have a policy in place that covers access to the school for people who haven't been CRB or DBS checked. Think about it - tradesmen coming in for quotes, prospective parents - people who haven't been checked come into schools all the time.
I would be inclined to ask for a copy of the school complaints policy and follow that.

sashh · 19/03/2013 08:25

If a child fell over in the play ground and had a suspected broken bone (not that I would wish that) and an ambulance was called would they refuse the paramedics access? They will have been CRB checked but not by the school.

How is it different for a therapist?

Original poster

99problems · 19/03/2013 08:59

I have copied this from the schools safeguarding policy

? Volunteers must also have Criminal Records Bureau clearance. For a brief activity, such as a school visit, which does not involve the supervision or being alone with a child(ren) the school will make identity checks. For extended contact with children, when children may be left alone with an adult, or when an adult visitor may be in and around the school building a full CRB search will be conducted. Visitors who do not yet have clearance will under no circumstance be left alone with a child or group of children

OP posts:

Blessyou · 19/03/2013 18:18

So, the identity check would involve checking an ID Badge?
Or do they require passports/driving licences/3 months of utility bills from a visiting professional, ffs.
Sorry, OP, not helpful.

teacherandguideleader · 19/03/2013 18:49

In a lecture for my MA (SEN specialism) it was implied that some private therapists find an issue when there isn't necessarily one and sometimes private diagnoses don't carry as much weight as an NHS one. Something to do with them giving you what you've paid for. I have no idea if that is true, but I have had a private therapist myself - she was in no hurry to say there was nothing wrong and lose the business.

It could be why the school are not keen on the therapist visiting.

IneedAsockamnesty · 19/03/2013 21:12

Its true that amongst local authorities they do think that teacher.

When my second youngest was dx with ASD by a private centre they refused to accept the dx he had to wait another 18 months to get exactly the same dx from the NHS weirdly enough the dx letter was signed by exactly the same person as she works for the NHS as well as her own private clinic as most of the NHS consultants ect do around here.

Original poster

99problems · 21/03/2013 16:35

Just received a text from the private speech therapist saying she's spken to the schools SENCO who said they would prefer us to go through statutory services and won't accomodate her. She said it won't be practical to work with ds outside of school hours either. I am beyond livid, crying with anger right now. Does anyone have any advice?! Parent partnership haven't called back and I'm not sure who else to speak to now.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 21/03/2013 16:39

Can you contact the chair of Governors OP?

If you get no joy there, I'd try the LA.

The school sound as though they're just being difficult for the sake of it and not taking your DS's welfare into consideration at all.

Original poster

99problems · 21/03/2013 16:52

Should I contact head first? I'm not sure what to do as I get the impression the speech therapist feels awkward and doesn't want to get involved now so I either make a complaint for the sake of it or try to get them to give their consent and find another speech therapist. I am so upset I feel like taking ds out of that school, I cannot believe they lied to me regarding the CRB and now this, all for what?

OP posts:

Original poster

99problems · 21/03/2013 16:53

Plus not sure how to find contact details for governers or LEA, looked online for ages for LEA details the other day and couldn't find them.

OP posts:

SuburbanRhonda · 21/03/2013 16:59

Just putting this out there, but does the therapist have to assess your dd in school? All the children we refer to S&L are assessed at the hospital where S&L are based.

SuburbanRhonda · 21/03/2013 17:01

Sorry, ds not dd.

Original poster

99problems · 21/03/2013 17:03

Speech therpist has said it's not feasible to work with ds outside of school now so there seems little point in getting him assessed

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 21/03/2013 17:15

Sorry yes Head first...I thought you'd already done that.

The Head will also give you the Chair's contact details should you need them.

Scholes34 · 21/03/2013 17:23

Surely the speech therapist must have some experience of approaching/working with schools? If not, have you chosen the right speech therapist?

montage · 21/03/2013 17:35

Why does she now feel it's not feasible to work with your DS out of school?

Also, if she sticks to that stance I would find another speech therapist who will and just skip the in-school assessment for now.

maddening · 21/03/2013 18:26

Ok - now if the school have said no on grounds that they will assess then what date have they organised this for? - will you be required to meet with them.

I would insist that they start proceedings pronto having stood in way of your own assessment.

orangeandlemons · 21/03/2013 18:31

If we have a visitor into my school without a crb, they are never left alone for a second. Furthermore we have to carry out a risk assessment for them and agree to be responsible for them. No CRB=never left unsupervised. We even have to escort them to the toilet. And this is a secondary school

SuburbanRhonda · 21/03/2013 19:21

The Senco should be able to tell you how long it normally takes for an initial assessment from the date of the referral. In my experience, it's usually less than a month, but that might just be where I live. You could always phone the S&L team and ask them to give you an estimate of how long you might have to wait. And you can also check the referral has been received by them.

jeee · 21/03/2013 19:29

99problems, 3 of my 4 children needed speech therapy, and none of them were ever assessed in school. Frankly, I think it would have been pretty useless - they needed one to one work.

I really don't get why your private speech therapist was so keen on the school assessment, and why, now it's impossible, she's backing out.

I think if I was in your situation, I'd find a new private SALT, and push (which you're obviously doing) for further NHS input.

Best wishes

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